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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:22 am
"our economy basically runs on the fuel of 'more is better,' a strategy of purposely and systematically trying to push our desires out of their natural tendencies and strengthen them out of all natural proportion...the only thing in nature i can think of that grows nonstop are cancer cells. should we then ask the question: do we have a cancerous economic system?"
- ronald epstein
"there is something fundamentally wrong in treating the earth as if it was a business in liquidation."
- herman daly
discuss.
DISCLAIMER: im not trying to be a hippy and make everyone go vegan and start wearing hemp. i just thought these were some interesting quotes that provoked though, and perhaps could be used as a jumping off point for a discussion. i am not trying to further a political agenda here. also, please dont dwell on global warming alone - yes its problematic, but there are so many other damaging things we do to the environment, and i'd like to focus on the whole, rather than a single part, if possible.
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:50 am
extremists are the people who destroyed the validity of the attempt to fix our polluting ways. Do you have any in depth knowledge on the history of the 90's "global warming" movement? well conservatives are saying it does not exist, and they are, to an extent, right. Liberals are up in arms for saving the planet, but with out the right facts. The facts are that in the appreciable global meta cycle are negligible in terms of proving a pollution caused spike, therefor "global warming" as known by the common citizen without a science degree, does not actually exist. There is evidence of the affect on the planet, but this is not it. As a result of people unable to see beyond the face of this PR nightmare, the issue has been neglected on both sides in favor of supporting (on both sides) incorrect stances in the fight itself of whether or not global warming even exists!!!
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:21 am
Well, the extremes on both side don't end well, and both think they're right, its a touchy subject.
The Extreme Green think that they have to fight for the world.... WRONG.. If you push the world hard enough, it'll fight for itself.... And it punches hurt, look at the recent rise in Tsunamis and Hurricanes.. But they believe we have to go green or go home, and that just wont end well.
The Extreme Business think, that the Extreme Green have been eating vegetables waaaay too long, and its clogging up their brain things. Ok on a more serious version, they think that in this world there are two options. Being poor, or being rich, noting again how thats going to end in things like Natural disasters rising because of lack of things like natural break waters and standing forrests... But ya know, if you fight a forrest fire your doing more harm than good, the fire needs to clean away the dead underbrush to make room for more growth, if you let the trees grow too long and the underbrush get to thick, it all dies.
So I say, find a happy medium
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:58 am
Pirate Cadaver Well, the extremes on both side don't end well, and both think they're right, its a touchy subject. The Extreme Green think that they have to fight for the world.... WRONG.. If you push the world hard enough, it'll fight for itself.... And it punches hurt, look at the recent rise in Tsunamis and Hurricanes.. But they believe we have to go green or go home, and that just wont end well. The Extreme Business think, that the Extreme Green have been eating vegetables waaaay too long, and its clogging up their brain things. Ok on a more serious version, they think that in this world there are two options. Being poor, or being rich, noting again how thats going to end in things like Natural disasters rising because of lack of things like natural break waters and standing forrests... But ya know, if you fight a forrest fire your doing more harm than good, the fire needs to clean away the dead underbrush to make room for more growth, if you let the trees grow too long and the underbrush get to thick, it all dies. So I say, find a happy medium well the situation is a bit more complicated than that. the fight is over what appreciable difference our negative impact has made. until that is understood, the most effective method of fixing it cannot be known. if one studies the current 'green' methods, most of them, even on large scale are either ineffective in the long run, or just not, in their current forms, easily accessible or particularly well... working. take recycling. energy waste in the current method of paper recycling is very high. there is chemical runnoff and if the paper is 80% recycled or more, it is fragile, rendering it useless for commercial application. Electric engines. same engineering as a standard engine, rewired to run off a battery. They are to expensive for the average consumer, impeding distribution, the best only lasts about 140 highway miles before it dies, (not to mention that if they became affordable enough, having more than 40% of them charging at once could cause a blackout) and the engine itself is an energy hog. It needs to be re-engineered altogether to be at all useful. But I do ramble on when I am tired. Off to bed I go... its far to late for me to be up anymore
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:37 am
lotusvoid extremists are the people who destroyed the validity of the attempt to fix our polluting ways. Do you have any in depth knowledge on the history of the 90's "global warming" movement? well conservatives are saying it does not exist, and they are, to an extent, right. Liberals are up in arms for saving the planet, but with out the right facts. The facts are that in the appreciable global meta cycle are negligible in terms of proving a pollution caused spike, therefor "global warming" as known by the common citizen without a science degree, does not actually exist. There is evidence of the affect on the planet, but this is not it. As a result of people unable to see beyond the face of this PR nightmare, the issue has been neglected on both sides in favor of supporting (on both sides) incorrect stances in the fight itself of whether or not global warming even exists!!! yes i know this. i was trying to avoid the whole bullshit debate around global warming, which is why i said "PLEASE DON'T DWELL ON GLOBAL WARMING"!!! scream i think the clearcutting of rainforests and the mismanagement and overpopulation that leads to encroaching deserts, and the destruction of entire species of animals is a bigger problem than global warming, whether or not you believe it exists. xp here's another quote to think on: "if today is a typical day on planet earth, we will lose 116 square miles of rainforest, or about an acre a second. we will lose another 72 square miles to encroaching desert, the result of human mismanagement and overpopulations. we will lose 40 to 100 species, and no one knows whether the number is 40 or 100. today the human population will increase by 250,000. and today we will add 2,700 tons of CFCs to the atmosphere and 15 million tons of carbon. tonight the earth will be a little hotter, its waters more acidic, and the fabric of life more threadbare." - david w. orr, professor of environmental sciences, oberlin college, 1990 no regardless of wheter global warming exists or not, we are polluting the air, which does cause *other* problems... and this quote is from 1990. since then the trends have only gotten worse. think about that - 116 square miles of rainforest! 40 to 100 species! 72 square miles of desert! doesnt that seem like a pretty big problem? and none of that is caused by global warming.
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:53 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:34 pm
Volvy http://www.storyofstuff.com/ Worth a look, with regards to the subject. thank you
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:11 pm
Those quotes remind me of This
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:35 pm
Gravechylde Those quotes remind me of This
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:45 pm
I don't know how many have seen this, but there are commercials now saying we need to band together and work on adjusting to climate change. Now, I agree somethings need to be changed to cope with it, but there's one that has the current and former speaker of the house in congress. And I can't help but think, "If the current and former speakers of the house in congress can't do anything, what am I supposed to do?". confused
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:51 pm
MegaTherion777 Volvy http://www.storyofstuff.com/ Worth a look, with regards to the subject. thank you No problem
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:22 pm
MegaTherion777 lotusvoid extremists are the people who destroyed the validity of the attempt to fix our polluting ways. Do you have any in depth knowledge on the history of the 90's "global warming" movement? well conservatives are saying it does not exist, and they are, to an extent, right. Liberals are up in arms for saving the planet, but with out the right facts. The facts are that in the appreciable global meta cycle are negligible in terms of proving a pollution caused spike, therefor "global warming" as known by the common citizen without a science degree, does not actually exist. There is evidence of the affect on the planet, but this is not it. As a result of people unable to see beyond the face of this PR nightmare, the issue has been neglected on both sides in favor of supporting (on both sides) incorrect stances in the fight itself of whether or not global warming even exists!!! yes i know this. i was trying to avoid the whole bullshit debate around global warming, which is why i said "PLEASE DON'T DWELL ON GLOBAL WARMING"!!! scream i think the clearcutting of rainforests and the mismanagement and overpopulation that leads to encroaching deserts, and the destruction of entire species of animals is a bigger problem than global warming, whether or not you believe it exists. xp here's another quote to think on: "if today is a typical day on planet earth, we will lose 116 square miles of rainforest, or about an acre a second. we will lose another 72 square miles to encroaching desert, the result of human mismanagement and overpopulations. we will lose 40 to 100 species, and no one knows whether the number is 40 or 100. today the human population will increase by 250,000. and today we will add 2,700 tons of CFCs to the atmosphere and 15 million tons of carbon. tonight the earth will be a little hotter, its waters more acidic, and the fabric of life more threadbare." - david w. orr, professor of environmental sciences, oberlin college, 1990 no regardless of whether global warming exists or not, we are polluting the air, which does cause *other* problems... and this quote is from 1990. since then the trends have only gotten worse. think about that - 116 square miles of rain forest! 40 to 100 species! 72 square miles of desert! doesn't that seem like a pretty big problem? and none of that is caused by global warming. But with the abounding misinformation out there, I think it needs to be addressed
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:37 pm
lotusvoid MegaTherion777 lotusvoid extremists are the people who destroyed the validity of the attempt to fix our polluting ways. Do you have any in depth knowledge on the history of the 90's "global warming" movement? well conservatives are saying it does not exist, and they are, to an extent, right. Liberals are up in arms for saving the planet, but with out the right facts. The facts are that in the appreciable global meta cycle are negligible in terms of proving a pollution caused spike, therefor "global warming" as known by the common citizen without a science degree, does not actually exist. There is evidence of the affect on the planet, but this is not it. As a result of people unable to see beyond the face of this PR nightmare, the issue has been neglected on both sides in favor of supporting (on both sides) incorrect stances in the fight itself of whether or not global warming even exists!!! yes i know this. i was trying to avoid the whole bullshit debate around global warming, which is why i said "PLEASE DON'T DWELL ON GLOBAL WARMING"!!! scream i think the clearcutting of rainforests and the mismanagement and overpopulation that leads to encroaching deserts, and the destruction of entire species of animals is a bigger problem than global warming, whether or not you believe it exists. xp here's another quote to think on: "if today is a typical day on planet earth, we will lose 116 square miles of rainforest, or about an acre a second. we will lose another 72 square miles to encroaching desert, the result of human mismanagement and overpopulations. we will lose 40 to 100 species, and no one knows whether the number is 40 or 100. today the human population will increase by 250,000. and today we will add 2,700 tons of CFCs to the atmosphere and 15 million tons of carbon. tonight the earth will be a little hotter, its waters more acidic, and the fabric of life more threadbare." - david w. orr, professor of environmental sciences, oberlin college, 1990 no regardless of whether global warming exists or not, we are polluting the air, which does cause *other* problems... and this quote is from 1990. since then the trends have only gotten worse. think about that - 116 square miles of rain forest! 40 to 100 species! 72 square miles of desert! doesn't that seem like a pretty big problem? and none of that is caused by global warming. But with the abounding misinformation out there, I think it needs to be addressed so start a global warming thread talk2hand
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:43 pm
MegaTherion777 lotusvoid MegaTherion777 lotusvoid extremists are the people who destroyed the validity of the attempt to fix our polluting ways. Do you have any in depth knowledge on the history of the 90's "global warming" movement? well conservatives are saying it does not exist, and they are, to an extent, right. Liberals are up in arms for saving the planet, but with out the right facts. The facts are that in the appreciable global meta cycle are negligible in terms of proving a pollution caused spike, therefor "global warming" as known by the common citizen without a science degree, does not actually exist. There is evidence of the affect on the planet, but this is not it. As a result of people unable to see beyond the face of this PR nightmare, the issue has been neglected on both sides in favor of supporting (on both sides) incorrect stances in the fight itself of whether or not global warming even exists!!! yes i know this. i was trying to avoid the whole bullshit debate around global warming, which is why i said "PLEASE DON'T DWELL ON GLOBAL WARMING"!!! scream i think the clearcutting of rainforests and the mismanagement and overpopulation that leads to encroaching deserts, and the destruction of entire species of animals is a bigger problem than global warming, whether or not you believe it exists. xp here's another quote to think on: "if today is a typical day on planet earth, we will lose 116 square miles of rainforest, or about an acre a second. we will lose another 72 square miles to encroaching desert, the result of human mismanagement and overpopulations. we will lose 40 to 100 species, and no one knows whether the number is 40 or 100. today the human population will increase by 250,000. and today we will add 2,700 tons of CFCs to the atmosphere and 15 million tons of carbon. tonight the earth will be a little hotter, its waters more acidic, and the fabric of life more threadbare." - david w. orr, professor of environmental sciences, oberlin college, 1990 no regardless of whether global warming exists or not, we are polluting the air, which does cause *other* problems... and this quote is from 1990. since then the trends have only gotten worse. think about that - 116 square miles of rain forest! 40 to 100 species! 72 square miles of desert! doesn't that seem like a pretty big problem? and none of that is caused by global warming. But with the abounding misinformation out there, I think it needs to be addressed so start a global warming thread talk2hand Besides you and I, who would care?
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:46 pm
lotusvoid MegaTherion777 lotusvoid MegaTherion777 lotusvoid extremists are the people who destroyed the validity of the attempt to fix our polluting ways. Do you have any in depth knowledge on the history of the 90's "global warming" movement? well conservatives are saying it does not exist, and they are, to an extent, right. Liberals are up in arms for saving the planet, but with out the right facts. The facts are that in the appreciable global meta cycle are negligible in terms of proving a pollution caused spike, therefor "global warming" as known by the common citizen without a science degree, does not actually exist. There is evidence of the affect on the planet, but this is not it. As a result of people unable to see beyond the face of this PR nightmare, the issue has been neglected on both sides in favor of supporting (on both sides) incorrect stances in the fight itself of whether or not global warming even exists!!! yes i know this. i was trying to avoid the whole bullshit debate around global warming, which is why i said "PLEASE DON'T DWELL ON GLOBAL WARMING"!!! scream i think the clearcutting of rainforests and the mismanagement and overpopulation that leads to encroaching deserts, and the destruction of entire species of animals is a bigger problem than global warming, whether or not you believe it exists. xp here's another quote to think on: "if today is a typical day on planet earth, we will lose 116 square miles of rainforest, or about an acre a second. we will lose another 72 square miles to encroaching desert, the result of human mismanagement and overpopulations. we will lose 40 to 100 species, and no one knows whether the number is 40 or 100. today the human population will increase by 250,000. and today we will add 2,700 tons of CFCs to the atmosphere and 15 million tons of carbon. tonight the earth will be a little hotter, its waters more acidic, and the fabric of life more threadbare." - david w. orr, professor of environmental sciences, oberlin college, 1990 no regardless of whether global warming exists or not, we are polluting the air, which does cause *other* problems... and this quote is from 1990. since then the trends have only gotten worse. think about that - 116 square miles of rain forest! 40 to 100 species! 72 square miles of desert! doesn't that seem like a pretty big problem? and none of that is caused by global warming. But with the abounding misinformation out there, I think it needs to be addressed so start a global warming thread talk2hand Besides you and I, who would care? besides you and i (ie, the informed) who cares anyway? the misinformed will go on thinking theyre right, no matter what.
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Reply
