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Isn't it funny how when people mention birth control pill, condoms, and good ol' abstinence as a type of preemptive strike against abortion, they get argued down because, as we all know, abstinence has a HUGE failure rate and so do birth control pills and condoms.

But...when talking about sex ed., these same people complain about teenagers not being taught about contraception?

It's funny how taking preventative measures isn't a trump card when it comes to discussing blame regarding unwanted pregnancy, but apparently people have enough faith in it that it needs to be taught in sex ed above abstinence.

Seems a little...talking-out-of-both-sides-of-their-mouth-y to me.

You might want to re-read my post. I was saying they complain about kids not being taught about contraception, but then diminish its usefulness when discussing the outcomes of sex over abstinence.

Well, I apologize if I misread you then. Still, I've never noticed that to be true either. Then again, I've never been in a sex ed classroom, so I really don't know what's taught there.

I don't know. I agree with both types of sex ed, but I think they need to put the kibosh on some of the excuse-making that goes on. If you're going to blame lack of sex ed, then say it's still not all that beneficial, then what the hell?

Also interesting (Wikipedia):

Comprehensive sounds like a good one to teach. I mean, you can't NOT teach abstinence- Not abstinence only, but you have to include abstinence as a form of birth control. You can't get pregnant if you don't have sex.

But the point isn't for them to dissuade them from sex with comprehensive sex ed, it's to prepare them for responsible sex, really. THey're definitely not going to do a better job at keep kids from having sex because they're not designed to do that, but when it comes to will it prevent STDs/pregnancy better, if the kids actually listen it might.

But I agree with you. There does seem to be a disconnect, and I think that stressing abstinence would help. There's this social norm of teenagers having sex which really isn't helping the situation, and saying "They'll do it anyway," doesn't help either. While I think that it's a good enough reason to teach the use of contraceptives, I think it's a harmful attitude, and you're right, when they'll do it anyway then it is inevitable that some of them will catch STDs and get pregnant. Having sex when you're not ready yet can be harmful in more than just a physical sense. You hear a lot about the possible emotional effects of an unwanted pregnancy, why is there never talk about the possible emotional effects of sex when it goes wrong? Guilt spirals, depression, a feeling of lacking love, regret that eats away, a feeling of worthlessness, things which can lead to serious problems in life. I'm not saying they're going to happen or that they'll probably happen, but they DO happen and they're almost never talked about.

I just don't think any sex education would help that. It's a deeper problem than adults saying "You're safe as long as you do this," (which is also a problem because too many times I've heard things presented in a way which made it seem like STDs and pregnancy almost never happen if you use protection). It's peers saying it too. It's pressure from all sides. And it's something that seems pretty tempting. Sex. Who wouldn't want it? After awhile of hearing how great it is, you want to at least experience it. And if you like it, you don't want to stop. DARE doesn't really do much to keep kids from smoking, drinking, and experimenting with drugs. Maybe it does, but it never seemed that way to me since people did it anyway. I think the same thing happens with sex education.

Teenagers weigh the pros and cons of things differently than adults do, in general. No matter how much comprehensive material you give them and how many logical arguments you make for waiting until they're older, they'll still look at the cons you're giving them and decide they don't outweight the pros. This doesn't just apply to abstinence only though. There are plenty of kids who don't use contraception for the same reasons. Sure they've heard that condoms are safer, but teenagers have a few things going on. The weights are different, they have an immortal special snowflake sort of thing going on (that happens to other people but it won't happen to me), and they lack the experience that adults have. I think people put too much stock in the power of comprehensive sex ed when kids will ignore it for the same reasons they'll ignore the abstinence stress. It's inconvenient, it's unnecessary (because those things won't happen to me, they just won't), and it's not as fun.

How exactly do we go about character building? How does one effectively contextualize sexual activity? How does this happen in a way that will work, I guess is what I'm asking.

Yeah, they would have no excuse except for bad luck in a few cases (it rarely happens when you follow instructions and used it correctly but there is still a very very small chance that things can fail, but it wouldn't be as bad or common as it is now).

I don't think comprehensive sex ed means what you think it means.

The "comprehensive" part means everything. I.e., teach them everything about sex. Including abstinence. Sex ed programs DO focus a lot on self-esteem and peer pressure, necessary components of the whole abstinence approach. As well as how to use the various forms of birth control out there, and peer pressure plays into that as well--girls may be pressured by boys not to use it, and girls should know better than to listen to some line like "oh, condoms don't protect you anyway..." or worry about birth control pills making them fat.



Yeeeah, liberals do that, too. Nobody has an "eh, what can ya do?" attitude about STDs and unplanned pregnancies. That's the whole point of comprehensive sex ed: to prevent these things whether kids choose to have sex or not.