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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:25 am
Rather than post this directly into the philosophy forum (which will be its eventual final resting place, rather than the archives) I want to place this in plain sight so that all might contribute.
For some reason, Christian post-creation myth (of all things) came into my head earlier and unlike the usual consequences of Christianity inhabiting one's head, it got me thinking...
Lets pretend for a moment that Eden was real and it was something of a Paradise. We were promised immortality and eternal happiness, but the condition was that we would never learn anything of any great philosophical ramifications and never achieve any real intellectual growth. Would you do it? Would you defy your loving creator and make the decision for yourself and your unborn children and accept the limits of mortality for the sake of attaining wisdom and knowledge?
I intend to post my thoughts, but first I'd like to hear what you have to think.
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:28 pm
Well Josh,
For the fact that i could barely stand the earth for 14 almost 15 years
I'd deffinatey choose mortality and wisdom because while you're living shorter you are more determined to do something worth it
being immortal, boring.
After a century, what the hell are you gonna do if you have no wisdom and knowledge to obtain further into doing more things?
Boring.
Even a 1000 years, what the hell would you do?
Id rather live 60 years at a fast pace life learning, then forever.
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:38 pm
Wow. So the situation is actually idea for you, then...Who would have guessed. I think it's amazingly short-sighted to simply be bored of living...I can't even fathom it. I mean when your 60, do you really think that you'll have accomplished everything that you ever wanted to do? So long as there is any small scrap of knowledge out there that I might ever use or even find interesting, that in and of itself is reason to go on...But I think I said it better in another post that I made. It was on the guild before, but I was largely disappointed in seeing that no one responded to it...But here it is.
"'I see immortality as terrible...If its wasted on the common idiot. Only those with brilliance, with unparalleled creativity, unbridaled genius, or something else that would better the world should ever have the option of living forever. Seeing eternal life handed out at frat parties, the GD, or churches would make me take my own life right now. I however, would like to live on, eternally. When I am all out of stories, all out of art, all out of ideas, and the world has nothing more to offer me, nor I it, I can sleep peacefully in my grave, but the world inspires me and new things are created every instant of every moment, of every second of every minute of every hour of every day. I will never throw it all away, if I had the choice. And to throw it away for what? Heaven? Hell? The more likely oblivion? Never. Not I. '
"When I was very young, and I first learned that "old age," was a cause of death, I was horrified. My young mind reeled with the knowledge that all who were born would one day die. I have never been comfortable with my immortality, and I know that I never shall be...Those of you who have been here for long enough may find hints of my mortiphobia, though I am loathe to use the term, as a "phobia," is an irrational fear; an affliction. Unless you are religiously afflicted, who, other than those with less to offer than I would not fear death?"
Feel free to post any further thoughts that this may spark. I know that I haven't answered the question myself, yet...I don't intend to, until I've heard more from all of you.
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:07 pm
Considering theres fewer things keeping me going,then there was a few years ago, in my life that has influenced my opinion. Just the thought of living this for ever? That'd be #1 to torture me in the worst way. Make me immortal on this forsaken world. Everyone says " Oh shut up you're just a teen looking for attention from your supposedly hard life"
I who nod and say sure whatever, just drop it, cause I'm the one who knows what all i have truly been through, which no one else on this earth does know, And i hope no one on this earth sees half the things i've seen. I'd wish it on no one. My friends being the people keeping me going, if i had to be immortal, They'd have to be too, i know i sound like a pathetic teen that can't go on. Oh i could live without them. I wouldn't laugh. I wouldn't smile,((Oh how rare that is)) I wouldn't be an all over pleasant person.
So therefore I'd rather live a short lived life, and not live to see the doom this earth will become.
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:18 pm
Remembering how shitty life was for me when I was about your age sheds a great deal of illumination of your answer. I suppose if I was still your age and thought that my life wasn't going to ever get any better, immortality would be less attractive to me, but then again it has always been an interest of mine to live forever. Of course it would have been nice to take a few people with me, but as I already stated, seeing everyone I ever loved slowly die mortal's deaths while I persisted was a price that I expected, and it's not that I don't love those around me, but for the chance to live forever, its a small price to pay.
Contrarily, think of what you would learn if you could live forever. The things you'd see, the things you'd learn, all that you could learn...Perhaps you might not be able to keep those you love alive longer, but you may think of other ways to help...hasten the mortality of those who make life less bearable than it may otherwise be...If you get my drift.
As for how, I really can't say. There are forces at work in this world that even science as we know it now cannot explain. If such things could be harnessed (and who's to say that given time such things could not be learned?) then with a bit of subtlety, it might be easy to do things and escape any consequences that might otherwise arise.
Given time, intellect, and motivation, any one of might change the world to better suit us.
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:32 pm
I've seen good and bad
But what do i remember more?
ofcourse the bad,
i'd love to go places, see things, but look at this world already falling apart.
Soon there will be 100 foot walls between every country
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:02 pm
I find it interesting that Josh continually goes on about all the things one would learn if immortal even though the whole point of the hypothetical immortality in this post is to remain ignorant. If the Christian mythology has been adapted correctly, then we are to believe that Eve was duped by the Serpent into eating of the Forbidden Fruit. Such a concept has been forcing women into a second class role for centuries. But does one ever ponder if, perhaps, Eve had tired of their frolicking and wanted something more? If rather than being duped, she deliberately chose to defy God?
Were I in such a position, I would most certainly eat the fruit. An eternity of ignorant bliss is not a life I would ever wish to entertain. Perhaps at some intervals in my young life I wished that I was a bit more average than I was, but in the long-run, I am glad that I am not.
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:28 pm
Well in that portion I was specifically lauding the immortality portion of the deal, and stating feelings on that specifically that were reflected in an earlier post. It always surprises me when I meet another person that doesn't want to live forever, despite knowing so many.
I feel that it's worth mentioning that obviously I don't believe in any such story, nor do I incorporate any of the religious sexist themes into my life. If you want to talk sexism, though, let's look at wife number one. Lilith was demonized solely on the grounds that she was nothing more than what today would simply be referred to as a liberated woman...Though this bit of Judeo-Christian mythology has been omitted and consequently is considered to be primarily Hebrew, though it does occasionally find its way into the origin stories of creatures from various other cultures.
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:32 pm
I'd certainly eat of the tree. An eternity of blissful ignorance is not a life. A short life full of information and meaning is the next best thing, but having an eternity to study everything, to learn more than would be possible in a limited life span would be ideal, if it were possible. No mortal could ever discover everything about the unknown, so having forever to learn everything possible would be a perfect existence. But seeing as there were only two options, I'd settle for a limited existence full of knowledge, if I had to make the choice.
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:52 am
Agreed. You pretty much hit my answer on the head, Torzeh. This answer is precisely the same as my own.
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:20 am
Great minds think alike, I suppose. ^_^
Although I think most people would go for mortality and knowledge.
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:53 pm
Torzeh Great minds think alike, I suppose. ^_^ Although I think most people would go for mortality and knowledge. Between the ungraspable fear of being eternal, or the lust for knowledge, a mix of both, I think you are right, as far as the guild goes. The more religiously-minded, however (mostly absent from this guild, by coincidence or by design) may have different views when it comes to direct orders from their perceived Almighty.
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:07 am
Matasoga Torzeh Great minds think alike, I suppose. ^_^ Although I think most people would go for mortality and knowledge. Between the ungraspable fear of being eternal, or the lust for knowledge, a mix of both, I think you are right, as far as the guild goes. The more religiously-minded, however (mostly absent from this guild, by coincidence or by design) may have different views when it comes to direct orders from their perceived Almighty. Ah yes. But I couldn't really care less about the more religiously-minded. To be honest, I'd rather they chose immortality. That way, in the unlikely event that there was indeed an afterlife, they would not be there.
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:39 am
Torzeh Matasoga Torzeh Great minds think alike, I suppose. ^_^ Although I think most people would go for mortality and knowledge. Between the ungraspable fear of being eternal, or the lust for knowledge, a mix of both, I think you are right, as far as the guild goes. The more religiously-minded, however (mostly absent from this guild, by coincidence or by design) may have different views when it comes to direct orders from their perceived Almighty. Ah yes. But I couldn't really care less about the more religiously-minded. To be honest, I'd rather they chose immortality. That way, in the unlikely event that there was indeed an afterlife, they would not be there. My dear you have just inspired me. I will, post it in a few days, after I've left the one about the house bunny and the Gaia outage to ruminate for a bit. I hate seeing intelligent ideas lost in the shuffle.
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:57 am
Matasoga Torzeh Matasoga Torzeh Great minds think alike, I suppose. ^_^ Although I think most people would go for mortality and knowledge. Between the ungraspable fear of being eternal, or the lust for knowledge, a mix of both, I think you are right, as far as the guild goes. The more religiously-minded, however (mostly absent from this guild, by coincidence or by design) may have different views when it comes to direct orders from their perceived Almighty. Ah yes. But I couldn't really care less about the more religiously-minded. To be honest, I'd rather they chose immortality. That way, in the unlikely event that there was indeed an afterlife, they would not be there. My dear you have just inspired me. I will, post it in a few days, after I've left the one about the house bunny and the Gaia outage to ruminate for a bit. I hate seeing intelligent ideas lost in the shuffle. Post what? Sorry, I'm not thinking too well right now. xP
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