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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:20 am
Thinking about the series the way I've been doing for the past twenty or so minutes is getting me upset.
First off, when they say that as soon as a Diclonius turns three they'll kill their parents without hesitation, how do they really know? Just because of a few isolated cases, could they really write off the whole race just because of that? I know that if it happened to me, I would have opted to have my wife bear the child at home so NOBODY would know about it. Surely there are things a good parent could do to prevent such a thing from happening. Not every child is similar, and CERTAINLY not every child is a killer.
/rant
Discuss.
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:00 am
I agree man.. its all about the personality of the child. and whether or not the child is raised well. if it is, why would it kill its parents?
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-Deadman- Snow Owl Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:38 am
Good point proven. If you take a look at Mariko, the moment she saw her real father, she snapped right out of her psychotic state. Thinking about it, if she had grown up in a home where she got that kind of love and attention everyday, I don't think she would have turned out like she did. Yes she would still suffer the way all diclonius do, but she might have had an easier time with a steady home life.
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:52 pm
Diclonius Toshiro I agree man.. its all about the personality of the child. and whether or not the child is raised well. if it is, why would it kill its parents? Well, they chalk it up to that supposed 'killing instinct' that they all have once they reach the ripe age of three years old. That 'voice' that tells them to kill, that makes it seem like a game. I'm sure though, that since a diclonius' intelligence far surpasses that of a human's anyways, it'd be safe to say that by 3, they'd be able to suppress that voice and would know the difference between right and wrong. Hell, look at number 3 from Kurama's flashback. She cleverly made it look like her vectors hadn't developed at all in the past month, and come feeding time, she was able to escape her room and meet up with 'the man behind the glass,' before meeting an untimely demise via anti-tank rifle. And the best part is, she was only three years old.
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-Deadman- Snow Owl Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:38 am
I bet you didn't know she actually has a name....
i did notice that too....they are freaking smart....i wish i was that smart...
btw.. her name is Sanban
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:45 am
iKavu Good point proven. If you take a look at Mariko, the moment she saw her real father, she snapped right out of her psychotic state. Thinking about it, if she had grown up in a home where she got that kind of love and attention everyday, I don't think she would have turned out like she did. Yes she would still suffer the way all diclonius do, but she might have had an easier time with a steady home life. id say like Nana, but that just isn't the case... she was tortured her whole life.. the only reason she kept fighting to survive was because she always thought of kurama as her father, always knew that if she did what she was supposed to, she would get praised( kind of) she felt his fatherly love (i wouldn't call it that though) and thats why she kept her sanity. personally i would have killed him, just becasue if you are supposed to be playing that part of a father figure, YOU DONT LET WHAT HAPPENED TO HER OR MARIKO HAPPEN!! mariko got planted with a freaking bomb for god sakes... what kind of parent allows someone to do that to their little girl? when i found out that he let that happen, i wanted to cry. that is the exact reason I hate kurama. he lets this s**t happen...and shrugs it off...sure he sort of makes up with Mariko, but that is nothing for the sin he commited to leting it all happen to her. now i understnad why you like mariko so much, kavu-chan....im starting to like her more and more now.. thank you...but.. my heart still belongs to lucy ^_^
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-Deadman- Snow Owl Vice Captain
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-Deadman- Snow Owl Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:50 am
in response to my answer on the poll..
if i was to ever have a diclonius little girl9or boy), i would never let anything happen to her. she is my baby, my flesh and blood. and nothing would change that. my love for her would never change. she would be my daughter. noone elses. and i would give anything to make sure she was happy and well taken care of.
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:53 am
Diclonius Toshiro I bet you didn't know she actually has a name.... i did notice that too....they are freaking smart....i wish i was that smart... btw.. her name is Sanban Yep, I knew all about her name. razz And I'd do the same thing, I wouldn't let anybody or anything come between my child and I.
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-Deadman- Snow Owl Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:04 pm
you do you find it so amusing to do that to me? XD
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:25 pm
Diclonius Toshiro I bet you didn't know she actually has a name.... i did notice that too....they are freaking smart....i wish i was that smart... btw.. her name is Sanban Sanban means Number 3 in Japanese, just like Nana means 7. Also, you're correct in saying that Diclonius children are smarter than regular Human children. If I were a father of one, I would never let such potential die, ever.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:16 am
If that was me even If my little kiddy was gonna kill me I'd still bring It up and who says there gonna do that to all the parents?
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Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:46 pm
...This is actually really interesting to think about. Thanks for posting this, King Krogdor. ^.^
There was also the little Diclonius girl--you know, the one in cute pajamas that killed the police officers so easily. For a long while, I thought that was sufficient proof to how violent Diclonii could be...and yet...there is never information on what her home life was like. o.O Her parents could have been neglectful, abusive even...perhaps they were even like the people who worked at the orphanage where Lucy lived--simply fulfilling their obligation, leaving the child without any actual love. Nor do you get to hear the histories of all the other Diclonii in the lab...in the manga, there is at least one other example--besides Nana--of a Diclonius--Number 28, I think--who was nonviolent and worked well with humans. Of course, her role was insignificant, and she had a tragic fate...but she was still cooperative with humans. Who is to say that other Diclonii in the lab could not have been the same? So, though it may be few, some Diclonii really are able to not only fight the voice, but completely avoid it until they are hurt--in fact, it is shown repeatedly throughout the anime and manga that it is not until Diclonii are hurt horribly that they show violence.
Then again, consider the number of Diclonii in the lab--in the manga, hundreds of Diclonii are shown inside the lab at one point, and they are all intent on killing humans. Given the large number of Diclonii, and the amount of time they researched them (look at how long Kurama has worked at the lab), the data that showed Diclonii normally kill their parents at age three could be based on logical reasoning.
...But then, if one really thinks about it, could it not also be said that most of the violence the Diclonii showed at the end was a cause of the horrible treatment they were receiving at the lab? And as for the research...isn't it possible that the threat was exaggerated, as a way of getting scientists to be more willing to experiment on the Diclonii as they had? Afterall, once you are dealing with something that's not considered human and could possibly end human existence, the ends will always justify the means--even if that means torturing and killing little children.
This truly is a debatable topic...but I have a solution: Ask Lynn Okamoto. Somehow get an interview with the man and question him on what the statistics are on Diclonii. Storm his house. Spam his email. Eat his food. Or just threaten that if he doesn't answer our questions, we will throw teddy bears at him. o.O There's no way he could challenge us.
Getting slightly off-topic here...I have to say that I disagree with some perceptions made about Kurama. *gets a rock thrown at her* In fact, I actually feel a lot of pity on Kurama's part. *gets shot multiple times* He is just an extremely troubled man who, in the end, has made a long series of mistakes. And to say he wasn't emotionally affected by his choices is simply wrong...it was obvious that he felt compassion for the young Diclonius girl who inevitably gave him the virus that created Mariko. Even as he killed young Diclonius babies, he could not help but feel pained at what he was doing--at one point, he simply stopped counting how many babies he had killed, as an effort to block out the pain. I think one of his quotes in the English dub of the anime best represents why he is so stoic about everything:
"Regret is the domain of those who burden the right to look back on the past...all I have is shame." ~Kurama, Elfen Lied, Episode 5 (English Dub)
How he shows that he cares: First instance? He didn't kill Mariko. While it could be argued that the reason he did not kill Mariko was to respect his wife's dying wish, it is still more probable to say that he did it out of affection to his daughter. Still not convinced? In the manga, he states--or, rather thinks to himself--that he has the same affection for both Mariko and Nana, but implies that, since Mariko is dangerous to society, she must be killed. Even though he knows this, and does attempt at killing her, he still cannot do it. While the first time he spared her life could be argued, the only logical conclusion for the second time is that he genuinely cared about his daughter--with the power she had, it would be easy to kill every human on the planet if she so desired--in fact, I'm fairly certain that she could have killed Lucy, both in the manga and in the anime. By sparing her, he showed that, even in the face of human destruction, he could not kill his own child.
Even more proof?
[spoilers--highlight text if you want to see] After Mariko's death in the manga, Kurama becomes so overwhemed with grief that he goes completely insane. If that doesn't show he cares, I don't know what will.
Overall...Kurama is a very well developed character; in fact, he is one of the best--not only in the series, or in manga/anime, but in media entertainment in general. I truly think Lynn Okamoto put a lot of work into creating his personality, history, and overall being--and did splendidly at it--I mean, Okamoto actually made me feel pity for a man who killed more than 10 children. Even in entertainment, that is a feat to be admired.
Also...I thought that Kurama didn't know about Mariko being implanted with bombs--that it was done by Director Kakuzawa, without Kurama's knowing. Then again, it's been a while since I read the manga or watched the anime...so it's very probable that I could be wrong.
But, character analyses aside--as well as obsessive Elfen Lied geekiness--I don't think I could ever...ever...EVER...kill my own child, even if (s)he were a Diclonis. I just...it almost makes me cry to think about it. Even if I knew--without a shadow of a doubt--that my child would kill me...I just couldn't. I wouldn't. I would downright refuse to. If I had to, I would live in absolute denial that my child would most likely try to kill all humans, and that I would be the first to go.
And if my future partner tried to kill him/her...well...let's just say that he wouldn't die by the child's hands.
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:34 am
Doll Of Null ...This is actually really interesting to think about. Thanks for posting this, King Krogdor. ^.^ There was also the little Diclonius girl--you know, the one in cute pajamas that killed the police officers so easily. For a long while, I thought that was sufficient proof to how violent Diclonii could be...and yet...there is never information on what her home life was like. o.O Her parents could have been neglectful, abusive even...perhaps they were even like the people who worked at the orphanage where Lucy lived--simply fulfilling their obligation, leaving the child without any actual love. Nor do you get to hear the histories of all the other Diclonii in the lab...in the manga, there is at least one other example--besides Nana--of a Diclonius--Number 28, I think--who was nonviolent and worked well with humans. Of course, her role was insignificant, and she had a tragic fate...but she was still cooperative with humans. Who is to say that other Diclonii in the lab could not have been the same? So, though it may be few, some Diclonii really are able to not only fight the voice, but completely avoid it until they are hurt--in fact, it is shown repeatedly throughout the anime and manga that it is not until Diclonii are hurt horribly that they show violence. Then again, consider the number of Diclonii in the lab--in the manga, hundreds of Diclonii are shown inside the lab at one point, and they are all intent on killing humans. Given the large number of Diclonii, and the amount of time they researched them (look at how long Kurama has worked at the lab), the data that showed Diclonii normally kill their parents at age three could be based on logical reasoning. ...But then, if one really thinks about it, could it not also be said that most of the violence the Diclonii showed at the end was a cause of the horrible treatment they were receiving at the lab? And as for the research...isn't it possible that the threat was exaggerated, as a way of getting scientists to be more willing to experiment on the Diclonii as they had? Afterall, once you are dealing with something that's not considered human and could possibly end human existence, the ends will always justify the means--even if that means torturing and killing little children. This truly is a debatable topic...but I have a solution: Ask Lynn Okamoto. Somehow get an interview with the man and question him on what the statistics are on Diclonii. Storm his house. Spam his email. Eat his food. Or just threaten that if he doesn't answer our questions, we will throw teddy bears at him. o.O There's no way he could challenge us. Getting slightly off-topic here...I have to say that I disagree with some perceptions made about Kurama. *gets a rock thrown at her* In fact, I actually feel a lot of pity on Kurama's part. *gets shot multiple times* He is just an extremely troubled man who, in the end, has made a long series of mistakes. And to say he wasn't emotionally affected by his choices is simply wrong...it was obvious that he felt compassion for the young Diclonius girl who inevitably gave him the virus that created Mariko. Even as he killed young Diclonius babies, he could not help but feel pained at what he was doing--at one point, he simply stopped counting how many babies he had killed, as an effort to block out the pain. I think one of his quotes in the English dub of the anime best represents why he is so stoic about everything: "Regret is the domain of those who burden the right to look back on the past...all I have is shame." ~Kurama, Elfen Lied, Episode 5 (English Dub) How he shows that he cares: First instance? He didn't kill Mariko. While it could be argued that the reason he did not kill Mariko was to respect his wife's dying wish, it is still more probable to say that he did it out of affection to his daughter. Still not convinced? In the manga, he states--or, rather thinks to himself--that he has the same affection for both Mariko and Nana, but implies that, since Mariko is dangerous to society, she must be killed. Even though he knows this, and does attempt at killing her, he still cannot do it. While the first time he spared her life could be argued, the only logical conclusion for the second time is that he genuinely cared about his daughter--with the power she had, it would be easy to kill every human on the planet if she so desired--in fact, I'm fairly certain that she could have killed Lucy, both in the manga and in the anime. By sparing her, he showed that, even in the face of human destruction, he could not kill his own child. Even more proof? [spoilers--highlight text if you want to see] After Mariko's death in the manga, Kurama becomes so overwhemed with grief that he goes completely insane. If that doesn't show he cares, I don't know what will.Overall...Kurama is a very well developed character; in fact, he is one of the best--not only in the series, or in manga/anime, but in media entertainment in general. I truly think Lynn Okamoto put a lot of work into creating his personality, history, and overall being--and did splendidly at it--I mean, Okamoto actually made me feel pity for a man who killed more than 10 children. Even in entertainment, that is a feat to be admired. Also...I thought that Kurama didn't know about Mariko being implanted with bombs--that it was done by Director Kakuzawa, without Kurama's knowing. Then again, it's been a while since I read the manga or watched the anime...so it's very probable that I could be wrong. But, character analyses aside--as well as obsessive Elfen Lied geekiness--I don't think I could ever...ever... EVER...kill my own child, even if (s)he were a Diclonis. I just...it almost makes me cry to think about it. Even if I knew--without a shadow of a doubt--that my child would kill me...I just couldn't. I wouldn't. I would downright refuse to. If I had to, I would live in absolute denial that my child would most likely try to kill all humans, and that I would be the first to go. And if my future partner tried to kill him/her...well...let's just say that he wouldn't die by the child's hands. no Kurama knew that is why he took her where he took her and hugged her and said how much he loved her. He waited for the bomb to go off. Although, i do agree that he loved Mariko. I think he was convinced that Diclonii were dangerous and all of the science involved. He suppressed his pain and became stoic. He only let Nana live because of what she had become. He knew if he told her what to do then she would do it for him. This simply was not the case with Mariko and Lucy. There was a sense of unsure-ness with them and could turn violent at any time. But Nana was more protecting and would only use her vectors when instructed or when she really had to. Honestly, I am not sure what I would do if i have a kid like that... One cannot truly know until your in such a situation. The situation changes you. Although i think in Kuramo's case they made him give up his daughter. I don't think he wanted to lock her up.... much less kill her either. Either way, she was so damaged that she was extremely violent. I think though, Lucy had to die. She did not trust herself. But even more, she felt extreme guilt over what she did to Kouta's family. She loved Kouta, but she did something horrible to him. However, I have never read the manga and only watched the anime... **Elfen Lied is the only violent anime I've ever seen**
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