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FUTURE Theory

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Zupu

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:12 pm


Here goes a theory or two:

Assumptions:
1) Assuming we know where every particle and energy is and where they are going in the universe
2) Assuming we know exactly how every particle interacts.
3) Assuming we can keep track of everything.

Then:
We can predict into the future with infinite accuracy, because we will know exactly what each fundamental parts will perform through time. We can predict how many humans there are on earth in year 2008, we can even predict what is the full name of a random person (because, knowing the EXACT composition of his parents' minds and the EXACT ways these composition performs, we know how these brains will work and what names they will thought up).

However:
Heisenberg uncertainty principle says that we cannot know where exactly a particle is and where exactly it is going simultaneously. Instead, there's a probability to both of them.

Thus:
If nature's fundamental parts work in the form of probabilities instead of exact figures, then it is natural (using the above thought track) that our universe have many many multiplicities (parallel universes/histories) happening simultaneously, each corresponding to an article in the myriad probabilities.

Uh... all right... what do you think?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:42 pm


eek I am going to have to mull this over a bit. I'm always a bit slow on these things. Biologist and all.

marimoy

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:12 pm


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I'm confused as to how you would know how the parents minds interact to develop a name by just knowing how particles interact with each other.... sweatdrop


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:05 am


Sun Charm
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I'm confused as to how you would know how the parents minds interact to develop a name by just knowing how particles interact with each other.... sweatdrop


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This operates on the assumption that there's no soul etc. If there are no soul etc, then thoughts function on the basis of electrochemical reaction. Thus, if we know how each particle interact and where they are, we can predict the precise reaction that occurs, and consequently the precise thoughts that happen.

Well... that's how I look at it anyway razz

Zupu


SirKirbance

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:36 am


You just described the mind of god - to know all things. You mentioned the heisenberg uncertainty principle. The issue it that know human knows all things. In order to get to know all things we would have to make observations, and the uncertainty priniple states that every act of observing alters that which you have observed, changing it from how you observed it at least a little, so that your knowledge is now uncertain. That is why it is called the uncertainty principle. There is another controversial interpretation of the uncertainty principle that states the uncertainty is an actual property of matter/energy, rather than just a limitation of our abilities to make measurements. This interpretation actually states that this knowledge is unknowable! Either way however the theory seems sunk.

On an off note, a universe that could be accurately predicted would be a universe void of free will. That would be no fun.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:58 pm


SirKirbance

On an off note, a universe that could be accurately predicted would be a universe void of free will. That would be no fun.


I concure. Although, if didn't know that there really is no free will, well then...uhm, I could still believe in free will, and I'd be happy, I'd reather not know there is known than live a brong life knowing I can't change it. mrgreen

So how's life all? Real life has had one hell of a call...(and some minor computer trouble...)

tiki_boyX2
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Zupu

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:50 am


SirKirbance
You just described the mind of god - to know all things. You mentioned the heisenberg uncertainty principle. The issue it that know human knows all things. In order to get to know all things we would have to make observations, and the uncertainty priniple states that every act of observing alters that which you have observed, changing it from how you observed it at least a little, so that your knowledge is now uncertain. That is why it is called the uncertainty principle. There is another controversial interpretation of the uncertainty principle that states the uncertainty is an actual property of matter/energy, rather than just a limitation of our abilities to make measurements. This interpretation actually states that this knowledge is unknowable! Either way however the theory seems sunk.

On an off note, a universe that could be accurately predicted would be a universe void of free will. That would be no fun.


I agree... partially. Of course, this theory assumes that we know where every particle is (the possibility of which seems highest at the point of big bang where everything is squashed to an almost infinitely small space). Then it assumes we know how everything work, which can perhaps be accomplished by thorough knowledge of the four forces.

On a side note however, I just realized this theory is about whether the future is fated from the way things are at the beginning; whether we know how and what everything is just affects whether we know the future. I.e. the theory assumes a fated universe/future; it is independent of whether we can actually achieve the basic parameters to utilize this theory for our own purposes.

About the Heisenburg uncertainty principle: according to the theory, if the principle is just a matter of our observation and the universe is certain, then there is one future, which is fated. IF the uncertainty principle is a thing embedded in nature, it suggests an uncertainty in future, or possibly the existence of multiple parallel universe. (Whether there is free will... well, as impartial "science-people", it's not up to us to say, but just to observe.)

To use the simplest example: throwing a dice may seem absolutely random. BUT, if we know exactly where each particle of the dice, its surrounding etc is and how the particles interact etc, we can predict PRECISELY the outcome of the dice-throw (unless uncertainty principle is an inherent part of nature and all that stuff.....).
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:53 am


Gosh, I just realized I have been describing the Theory of Everything physicists have been searching for?! Except, with the addition of knowledge of particles' position on top of how they interact, and consequently the addition of prediction of a precise history of our universe in addition to just how it works. O_o

Zupu


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:37 pm


Zupu
Sun Charm
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I'm confused as to how you would know how the parents minds interact to develop a name by just knowing how particles interact with each other.... sweatdrop


-----------------------




User Image


This operates on the assumption that there's no soul etc. If there are no soul etc, then thoughts function on the basis of electrochemical reaction. Thus, if we know how each particle interact and where they are, we can predict the precise reaction that occurs, and consequently the precise thoughts that happen.

Well... that's how I look at it anyway razz

So then if you're stating this in terms of there being no God, then I have to disagree with you.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:18 am


Sun Charm
Zupu
Sun Charm
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I'm confused as to how you would know how the parents minds interact to develop a name by just knowing how particles interact with each other.... sweatdrop


-----------------------




User Image


This operates on the assumption that there's no soul etc. If there are no soul etc, then thoughts function on the basis of electrochemical reaction. Thus, if we know how each particle interact and where they are, we can predict the precise reaction that occurs, and consequently the precise thoughts that happen.

Well... that's how I look at it anyway razz

So then if you're stating this in terms of there being no God, then I have to disagree with you.


The assumptions are that there are no external (non-physical) influences on things and events in the universe, but it doesn't necessarily mean there is no God (because God and souls can exist in a state impartial to reality, possibly).

As for my personal stance: I'm more towards the believing of supernaturals; although playing a role of science here, I have to be non-committed towards the existence or non-existence of God.

Zupu


Jerba2

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:53 pm


I applaud to you. Alas, there is one component you are neglecting, and it is the randomization. If you know of probability, then you should know that all occurances in the world are ultimately subject to it.

If you have heard of "Chaos Theory," then you will know it is precisely what you are referring to. Chaos Theory is the mathematical theory that the motion of all the particles in the universe cannot be kept track of, and therefore you can never know what ever is going to happen. Good science fiction, but not science practicality.

The problem you may be facing is that there are more things than just the motion of atoms. It is the amount of atoms, their placement in the world, and even the one-dimensional vibrating strings which compose them.

There are probably a Google to the billionth power problems with your theory. And yet, it is good food for thought.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:55 pm


BTW, I go to a Catholic school. I am not religious, but what I know of religion is that God has nothing to do with it, which means that even if everything was calculable, it wouldn't stop Christians.

Jerba2


marimoy

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:27 pm


WOW! I missed all this?!?! It all sounds very "Improbability Drive."
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