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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:26 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            I feel no need to appologize for what I am about to say. Oh, you guys are gonna get a kick outta this... lolroflsocks! I despise so-called "choice"rs. And not just dislike their debate style, or what their views are. Anyone who would call themselves Pro-"Choice" absolutely disgusts me! They should be called by their true name; Pro-Death! After all, that would be the logical opposite to Pro-Life, and they are for the deaths of millions of innocents everyday! They should all be put to death in the most painful way possible... I really hope this starts conversation in here again. Some would say we should try to get along with these murderers, but how can we possibly even think of trying to communicate in a civilized manor with people who would try to kill our generations? Who want to slaughter the unborn children of our sisters, daughters, and wives without discrimination? No one has the right to kill the innocents, those that will someday be our children! Why should we want to talk to them, except to curse their names? See, this is what happens when no one posts! They call themselves Pro-"Choice", but do they truly support choice? Of course not! They all want us to"choose" abortion! They believe that a pregnant woman is an embarrassment to their way of life, because someone who is willing to become pregnant is someone who is allowing themselves to be controlled by us, or so they would have you believe! They call it "choice", but really they wish to narrow our options down to one: Abort! I get bored and start posting CRAZY things! Have you ever gone into the Pro-Death guild? If you have not, I would commend you, and recommend you never do. Going into that guild, just clicking on the little link and entering that den of filth makes me feel like I'm slipping into a pool of foul smelling ooze made of concentrated evil. Their slimy arrogance at how right they are and how wrong we are, with little or no reason. It's sickening! Listening to "Goodnight Saigon" And obviously it's not even just me! If you haven't noticed, recently Pro-Choicers have joined our guild -to get away from the people in the Pro-Death guild! Apparently, certain people in the Pro-Death guild expect you to bend your knee to them, if you wish to enter. Sounds like the influence of the Devil to me... Trying to fill in the rest of the blank spaces. To any Pro-Deathers that have chosen to come in here, although surely the purity of our forums would melt them, I say this: You will burn in Hell, and may it be so! For someone who would call for the deaths of innocents deserve such a fate. Tell us what you think of our writing! PM I.Am! The differences between us are great. One key difference is that they want us to believe that abortion is a completely safe and does no harm to you. They would have us believe that to have an abortion, to kill our children before they have even seen the light of day, is alright, and that you should make your own decisions-But only as long as you make the decision they think you should make! And they try to ignore the after-effects; they claim Post-Abortion [Stress] Syndrome is not real, that we have made it up. In fact, it is all of their "science" that is made up. Eh, this isn't my favorite part... No one should be allowed to commit genocide against our species, by killing our unborn young. But I love this next line... >_< I for one wash my hands of anything to do with them, and rinse and spit their foulness from my mouth! So shall it be written, so shall it be done...         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:53 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            EDIT:
  Okay scratch that. Let's wait and see where this brings us. If someone finds this thread horribly offensive you may as well PM me, but I have... well... just continue I.Am         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:36 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            Dude, hatred =/= prolife.  Yeah, a lot of them would rather force their views on all of us, and there are quotes like Ellen Barkin saying, "I am the mother of a 12-year-old girl and I can tell you unequivocally that if my daughter was pregnant, I would take her kicking and screaming to have an abortion."  But Pro-deathers?  A lotta them aren't supporting women having abortions, just the legality of it because they think it'll protect women.         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:15 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            lymelady A lotta them aren't supporting women having abortions, just the legality of it because they think it'll protect women. I am quite reluctant to use the term "Pro-Death" as well...though it certainly does fit a few people...not all...and certainly not the majority of people I've met...but a few... "Pro-fetus" "Pro-abortion" "Anti-life" "Anti-abortion" "Pro-choice" "Pro-life "Anti-choice" This whole topic comes with a lot of labels for people.  And certainly we can't use one single name to label everyone on one side.  For example, we all know that "Pro-Fetus" can mean something quite different from "Pro-Life" depending on where you personally stand on the issue.  There are so many flavors of "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-Life" that it seems to be the only two acceptable terms anymore.   Even in our own guild, we have people with totally different approaches to this concept of "Pro-life".  Some of us believe that it is better to save one life then to lose both.  Some of us believe that the life of the child takes priority.  Some believe that no medical intervention should be allowed since it's not natural.  And that's only touching the topic of the child's life.  Then we get into the whole "what do we do for the mother?" question.  The only thing we ultimately share in commen is the belief that abortion on demand should be illegal. The only thing that all Choicers ultimately share in common is that abortion should be kept legal to some degree.  Even if it is only used in cases like rape.  I have also met Choicers who were opposed to partial-birth abortion (that is a beast in itself) but still identifyed themselves as "Pro-Choice".  There are many flavors of "Pro-Choice" just as there are of "Pro-Life". What really makes the Choicers that come here any different from the "Deathers" over there?  As far as I know we're not really changing their opinions.  They're just more mature and open to talk about it in a more civilized manner.  It's not really so much that such people have had such a startling revelation and have reached a state of Enlightenment...it is possible to enjoy the company of someone who disagrees with you when they don't call you an idiot because you think differently.          
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:22 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            Well, they did ban me from the pro-choice guild for saying something truly in favor of (either) choice.         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:54 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            lymelady Dude, hatred =/= prolife.  Yeah, a lot of them would rather force their views on all of us, and there are quotes like Ellen Barkin saying, "I am the mother of a 12-year-old girl and I can tell you unequivocally that if my daughter was pregnant, I would take her kicking and screaming to have an abortion."  But Pro-deathers?  A lotta them aren't supporting women having abortions, just the legality of it because they think it'll protect women.  Just so you know, lyme, those quotes from Ellen Barkin are from her new movie Palindromes, which is about a 12 year old girl who gets raped, and gets pregnant.
  But she doesn't want to have an abortion, and meets a pro-life family who adopts children to collect money, and other such things.
  The movie takes aim at all sides of the issue, and no one comes out clean. Yet it refuses to take a side, and bias itself.
  That aside, I like this guild, and I would leave if I felt like I was not welcome. But that's not come up. Because I know you guys like and respect those who accept and understand your views. I just know that you don't condone me condoning the, dare I say it, degrading of human life.
  Oh well. I'm sorry I'm not pro-life. I'd love to be, but It's not what's in my heart.         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:24 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			              heart  I love you Andy.
  *Is Miranda's mule account.*         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:31 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            Mcphee lymelady Dude, hatred =/= prolife.  Yeah, a lot of them would rather force their views on all of us, and there are quotes like Ellen Barkin saying, "I am the mother of a 12-year-old girl and I can tell you unequivocally that if my daughter was pregnant, I would take her kicking and screaming to have an abortion."  But Pro-deathers?  A lotta them aren't supporting women having abortions, just the legality of it because they think it'll protect women.  Just so you know, lyme, those quotes from Ellen Barkin are from her new movie Palindromes, which is about a 12 year old girl who gets raped, and gets pregnant.
  But she doesn't want to have an abortion, and meets a pro-life family who adopts children to collect money, and other such things.
  The movie takes aim at all sides of the issue, and no one comes out clean. Yet it refuses to take a side, and bias itself.
  That aside, I like this guild, and I would leave if I felt like I was not welcome. But that's not come up. Because I know you guys like and respect those who accept and understand your views. I just know that you don't condone me condoning the, dare I say it, degrading of human life.
  Oh well. I'm sorry I'm not pro-life. I'd love to be, but It's not what's in my heart.
  No.  They weren't from it.
  At a press conference she was asked how she'd deal with it.
  And this was her answer.  Don't believe me?
  http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/AFP/2004/09/07/573734?extID=10037&oliID=229
  I know about the movie.  I want to see it.  But...she was talking about her own daughter, not her character in a movie.           
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:09 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            Don't you dare leave, Adrian.  Members like you and Joy-ish are proof that there are people more concerned about saving women than killing babies when it comes to being prochoice.  Prochoice doesn't mean prodeath.  I'm assuming Andy had a bad run-in....         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:26 pm
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            Cyanna lymelady A lotta them aren't supporting women having abortions, just the legality of it because they think it'll protect women. I am quite reluctant to use the term "Pro-Death" as well...though it certainly does fit a few people...not all...and certainly not the majority of people I've met...but a few... "Pro-fetus" "Pro-abortion" "Anti-life" "Anti-abortion" "Pro-choice" "Pro-life "Anti-choice" This whole topic comes with a lot of labels for people.  And certainly we can't use one single name to label everyone on one side.  For example, we all know that "Pro-Fetus" can mean something quite different from "Pro-Life" depending on where you personally stand on the issue.  There are so many flavors of "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-Life" that it seems to be the only two acceptable terms anymore.   The label of Pro-Death holds at least as much truth as that of Pro-Choice. Whereas they are nominally for the "choice" of the mother, a statement that could be argued, they are undeniably supporting the deaths of millions. Quote: Even in our own guild, we have people with totally different approaches to this concept of "Pro-life".  Some of us believe that it is better to save one life then to lose both.  Some of us believe that the life of the child takes priority.  Some believe that no medical intervention should be allowed since it's not natural.  And that's only touching the topic of the child's life.  Then we get into the whole "what do we do for the mother?" question.  The only thing we ultimately share in commen is the belief that abortion on demand should be illegal. Nevertheless, the name Pro-Life always holds true for us; Whether or not the mother's life is considered equal to the fetus, the fetus' life is always held as valuable. Quote: The only thing that all Choicers ultimately share in common is that abortion should be kept legal to some degree.  Even if it is only used in cases like rape.  I have also met Choicers who were opposed to partial-birth abortion (that is a beast in itself) but still identifyed themselves as "Pro-Choice".  There are many flavors of "Pro-Choice" just as there are of "Pro-Life". Whether they support the more... Visible forms of death or not, they all support deaths.  Even if they are as reluctant as our friend McPhee. Quote: What really makes the Choicers that come here any different from the "Deathers" over there?  As far as I know we're not really changing their opinions.  They're just more mature and open to talk about it in a more civilized manner.  It's not really so much that such people have had such a startling revelation and have reached a state of Enlightenment...it is possible to enjoy the company of someone who disagrees with you when they don't call you an idiot because you think differently. I am of the opinion that those who have come into our guild are closer to being changed then those who scowl at and insult us with all their friends. They are more likely to truly be Pro-Choice then the rest of them, and I feel that showing them respect will bring them closer to joining the fold.          
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:06 pm
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            Yeah, I'd say Pro-Death/Anti-Life, too.         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:23 pm
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            lymelady Mcphee lymelady Dude, hatred =/= prolife.  Yeah, a lot of them would rather force their views on all of us, and there are quotes like Ellen Barkin saying, "I am the mother of a 12-year-old girl and I can tell you unequivocally that if my daughter was pregnant, I would take her kicking and screaming to have an abortion."  But Pro-deathers?  A lotta them aren't supporting women having abortions, just the legality of it because they think it'll protect women.  Just so you know, lyme, those quotes from Ellen Barkin are from her new movie Palindromes, which is about a 12 year old girl who gets raped, and gets pregnant.
  But she doesn't want to have an abortion, and meets a pro-life family who adopts children to collect money, and other such things.
  The movie takes aim at all sides of the issue, and no one comes out clean. Yet it refuses to take a side, and bias itself.
  That aside, I like this guild, and I would leave if I felt like I was not welcome. But that's not come up. Because I know you guys like and respect those who accept and understand your views. I just know that you don't condone me condoning the, dare I say it, degrading of human life.
  Oh well. I'm sorry I'm not pro-life. I'd love to be, but It's not what's in my heart.
  No.  They weren't from it.
  At a press conference she was asked how she'd deal with it.
  And this was her answer.  Don't believe me?
  http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/AFP/2004/09/07/573734?extID=10037&oliID=229
  I know about the movie.  I want to see it.  But...she was talking about her own daughter, not her character in a movie.   Wow, I didn't know Ellen Barkin was like that.
  I don't think that's very motherly of her, and it's certainly pretty terrible, as far as things you can say that aren't very politically correct. Though I suppose she wanted to be as graphic as she could, maybe as a way to get press for the film.
  I wouldn't leave this guild because some people didn't like me. I stayed here because I felt like I was welcome to discuss my beliefs, with people who wholeheartedly disagree with me. I almost thought of leaving, until Kp reassured me, after I had my pro-choice change of heart, that I was welcome here. He's such a sweetie.
  I'm sorry to say that I support the death of the fetus, as much as I hate to admit it. That's what I'm doing, in essence, to you guys, by allowing women the choice to abort. I suppose if that's what I have to do to feel at peace with myself, I guess I have to do that. I don't feel right telling people not to abort, and I couldn't do that. I tried, and I felt wrong doing it.
  I hate death, and I hate to look at abortion as death, so I call it a 'choice'. It softens the blow for me, in my book. I don't want to call myself 'pro-death' or 'anti-life' because those terms make it seem, to me, that I despise life, and want to spit on what it means. I don't. Not even a little bit.
  This is just something, a situation, where I have to contradict myself, and that kind of sucks.         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:06 pm
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            [quote="McPhee]Wow, I didn't know Ellen Barkin was like that.
  I don't think that's very motherly of her, and it's certainly pretty terrible, as far as things you can say that aren't very politically correct. Though I suppose she wanted to be as graphic as she could, maybe as a way to get press for the film.
  I wouldn't leave this guild because some people didn't like me. I stayed here because I felt like I was welcome to discuss my beliefs, with people who wholeheartedly disagree with me. I almost thought of leaving, until Kp reassured me, after I had my pro-choice change of heart, that I was welcome here. He's such a sweetie.
  I'm sorry to say that I support the death of the fetus, as much as I hate to admit it. That's what I'm doing, in essence, to you guys, by allowing women the choice to abort. I suppose if that's what I have to do to feel at peace with myself, I guess I have to do that. I don't feel right telling people not to abort, and I couldn't do that. I tried, and I felt wrong doing it.
  I hate death, and I hate to look at abortion as death, so I call it a 'choice'. It softens the blow for me, in my book. I don't want to call myself 'pro-death' or 'anti-life' because those terms make it seem, to me, that I despise life, and want to spit on what it means. I don't. Not even a little bit.
  This is just something, a situation, where I have to contradict myself, and that kind of sucks.Yet, as you say, you call it a choice to soften the blow. That would imply, in my mind, that you know the truth, but you are drawn by the other side for the sake of being able to sleep at night, because you don't want to be -forcing- anyone to do something just because you don't like it.
  So, if you were honest, wouldn't you have to admit that you are, in actuallity, Pro-Death?         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:50 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            I.Am Yet, as you say, you call it a choice to soften the blow. That would imply, in my mind, that you know the truth, but you are drawn by the other side for the sake of being able to sleep at night, because you don't want to be -forcing- anyone to do something just because you don't like it. So, if you were honest, wouldn't you have to admit that you are, in actuallity, Pro-Death?  No.
  I refuse to call myself 'Pro-death' just like I refuse to call Pro-life people 'Anti-choice'. Or, for that matter, 'pro-fetus' or 'anti-woman'. Those are terms that you use to try and make someone feel negatively about the position they've taken-- and I believe you need to accept the viewpoint you take, and support it with the term that best suits you.
  I could call you guys 'pro-fetus' or 'anti-woman' if I wanted to be a p***k. But I don't. Number 1, I'm in the pro-life guild, number 2, It's disrespectful, and number 3, it doesn't depict how I accurately feel about pro-life people-- specifically the ones in this guild.         
        
        
		        
		         
     
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                     Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:50 am
		     
             
             
             
                    
                        
                            
                                                                    
        
        
        
			            I'm agreeing with Mcphee.  The difference between prochoice and prodeath is like that of prolife and profetus.  
  Many who are prochoice believe that legal abortion ends up saving more people than it kills....a necessary evil, you might say.
  I have never once called someone Pro-death.  Okay, I did once.  Because she insisted on calling me anti-choice even though I asked her repeatedly not to, and when I pointed out to her that I didn't call her anti-life, she explained that "of course not, I'm not anti-life, but you're against women choosing abortion."  
  A) No, I'm not.    This may come as a surprise but if the government decided to put mind control devicies in women making it so they couldn't choose abortion, I'd be furious.  That doesn't mean that I don't want that choice legally condoned.
  and,
  B) If I'm anti-choice, by her own standards, she is anti-life.  It'd be, against women having abortion illegal as a choice, and, against the fetus having a right to life.  No having cake and eating it too.  
 
 
  Feeding into the cycle doesn't help end it.  Yeah, we set ourselves up as punching bags by not protesting too loudly when they say anti-choice, but we'll just get hit more if we retaliate in kind, first of all, secondly, it's feeding hate.  Feed the good dragon, not the bad one.            
        
        
		        
		         
     
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