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Hairy Priest Vice Captain
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:46 pm
We do have a thread tangentially based on this episode, but since it's more to do with whether or not the Tenth Doctor will be leaving soon based on Ood Sigma's cryptic comment at the end, here's one to discuss the story as a whole.
I think, of the 3 episodes of the season shown thus far, this was the best. Was there much story? Well, there was a lot of time spent running around and watching people die, but it all comes together at the end. We find out why suddenly the Ood are starting to go red-eye (sabotage by the Friend of the Ood infiltrator), why Sigma doesn't go on a killing spree like the other Ood (was rebelling in his own way by slowly turning his master into an Ood), and why the Ood are docile and carry around those translator balls (to replace their removed 2nd brains). I like it when there aren't a lot of loose threads. And the Doctor and Donna don't really solve anything this time around, instead being more of spectators to the events unfolding around them, but in a way I'm glad, since we already have plenty of stories where the Doctor twiddles around with stuff to miraculously save the day.
Also, I have to say, I keep enjoying how Donna continues to be the voice of 'things you just don't say' in the show. This time around she makes a pointed comment about the Doctor's occasional habit of insulting humans... THANK YOU, DONNA! If only she had been around earlier to slap the Ninth Doctor for all his 'stupid ape' remarks.
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:56 pm
Well... I liked the origins of the Ood. And I liked Ood Sigma. I was expecting him to turn all rabid any minute, but he never did.
But other than that... how did they turn that guy into an Ood? How come the Ood have one giant brain that they share? Where did that come from?Why were none of the minor characters remotely fleshed out? Why did anyone think we'd want to see the origins of the Ood? Like the Doctor said, it didn't occur to him. It didn't occur to me. Did anyone wonder about that?
Are we to assume that The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit occurred at some point before this episode?
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Hairy Priest Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:18 pm
Anna Mnemi Are we to assume that The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit occurred at some point before this episode? Not sure. We're given a date for the setting of this story, but I don't recall if one was mentioned in The Impossible Planet. In theory, this would have to take place after The Impossible Planet, since supposedly now that the Ood big brain is freed, the Ood scattered across the human intergalactic empire will be sent back home (or so the Doctor believes). As for why they bothered to have another Ood story... it's probably because they're cool looking monsters. Why have a giant brain? I have no idea, but it actually reminds me of the D&D mind-flayers (illithid), which the Ood vaguely resemble. Back in AD&D 2E it was revealed that the mind-flayers are spawned from a giant god brain. Not sure if that's just a case of "great minds think alike", or someone just nicked the idea from D&D (or some other source).
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:57 am
Hairy Priest Anna Mnemi Are we to assume that The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit occurred at some point before this episode? Not sure. We're given a date for the setting of this story, but I don't recall if one was mentioned in The Impossible Planet. In theory, this would have to take place after The Impossible Planet, since supposedly now that the Ood big brain is freed, the Ood scattered across the human intergalactic empire will be sent back home (or so the Doctor believes). As for why they bothered to have another Ood story... it's probably because they're cool looking monsters. Why have a giant brain? I have no idea, but it actually reminds me of the D&D mind-flayers (illithid), which the Ood vaguely resemble. Back in AD&D 2E it was revealed that the mind-flayers are spawned from a giant god brain. Not sure if that's just a case of "great minds think alike", or someone just nicked the idea from D&D (or some other source). I generally think that the less questions I have after an episode, the better it is. And about the D&D thing... I suspect it's more 'great minds think alike'. It doesn't seem like such a complicated idea that only one person could have come up with it to me.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:47 am
Anna Mnemi I generally think that the less questions I have after an episode, the better it is. Funny old world. I always think the exact opposite. smile
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:30 am
Hairy Priest Anna Mnemi Are we to assume that The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit occurred at some point before this episode? Not sure. We're given a date for the setting of this story, but I don't recall if one was mentioned in The Impossible Planet. One was mentioned. After deaths, Zac (or in the case of Scooti) Jefferson said "(fill in name here), deceased/deceased with honours, 43K2.1" I assume this to mean either 43021 or January 4302 as the date. Oh, and I've edited the thread title to be on the safe side...
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:31 am
Richard_Swift Anna Mnemi I generally think that the less questions I have after an episode, the better it is. Funny old world. I always think the exact opposite. smile I mean the less 'wtf how the hell does that work?' kind of questions, not the 'oh, that was thought-provoking' kind. Examples: 'I wonder what Sigma meant by 'your song is almost at it's end' (or whatever he said)?' is a 'oh, that was thought provoking' kind of question. 'How the hell did that guy turn into an Ood so quickly?!' is a 'wtf how the hell does that work?' kind of question.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:46 am
they said that it wasn't quick...they'd been doing it for years..it came to a head...
and the "aLL songs must end"....So he's gonna regenerate? or die?...weLL...if we're going by oLd ruLes he onLy has 3 regenerations Left anyway!
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:06 am
Sonic VEVIOS they said that it wasn't quick...they'd been doing it for years..it came to a head... and the "aLL songs must end"....So he's gonna regenerate? or die?...weLL...if we're going by oLd ruLes he onLy has 3 regenerations Left anyway! First - yes, but you'd think it'd be a much, much more gradual process than that. The only outward sign before then was his hair not growing back. I guess he could have been inwardly mutating for a long time, but you'd think he'd have noticed. Second - I wasn't actually asking that question... and he could have meant other things by it. tennantsbutterfly - would that make it before this episode, then? It would, wouldn't it?
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:43 am
Good episode, though very linear idea wise, besides the whole "Every song must end" thing, which I'll touch on in a bit.
Well, who would've thought that the Ood were native to an Ice Planet? I liked the idea of a Hive mind. Reminds me of the Ender's Game series by Orson Scott Card.
I loved the scene with the Crane/Claw and the Doctor, it reminds me of the games at the arcade, nice double heartbeat effect when he was on the ground also.
I have some thoughts on what exactly Odd Sigma's cryptic message entails.
On a really really far out note, since the Ood are a Telepathic race, they communicate through some form of Telepathy, in this case the singing. Which the Doctor could pick up on because he himself is Telepathic, to a degree. So this brings up th question, do all Telepathic creatures have a "song" of sorts? Going off this tangent we can assume that the Doctor has a "Song" also. Though what this song is or what it entails is up in the air. And the reason the Ood know of the Doctor's song is the same reason that he knows of theirs, they're telepathic.
My guess is that it it some sort of Lament, a song that embodies the Doctor's sadness for losing his people, similar to the Ood's song of captivity. So by saying it will "end" does Odd Sigma mean that the Time Lords are returning? (Kinda like the "You Are Not Alone" thing that the FoB said)
On a more main stream idea; the Doctor's end is near.
gonk
Once again, DONNA IS THE WIN!
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:58 am
A nice, watchable, run-about episode. The factory setting reminded me of old-school Doctor Who which was awesome. PLUS the Doctor didn't act too all-powerful in this. I especially loved watching him running away from the giant claw.
I have only 2 complaints about this episode:
1) The scene with the guy whipping the fallen over Ood was just unnecessary and made no sense. We already knew they were slave labour.
2) Why did the Ood do all that Doctor/Donna worship at the end? ("Our childrens children will sing your songs..." etc) They hardly DID anything! The Ood pretty much saved themselves, with the help of the guy who got eaten by the brain.
Otherwise a great episode! Though am I the only one who found the guy turning into the Ood just a LITTLE bit gruesome? I mean, when he spat out that second brain... eek And what kind of Ood excretion turns people into Oods anyway? Wait, I don't want to know. Unless it's like bee queen jelly.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:58 am
Anna Mnemi Richard_Swift Anna Mnemi I generally think that the less questions I have after an episode, the better it is. Funny old world. I always think the exact opposite. smile I mean the less 'wtf how the hell does that work?' kind of questions, not the 'oh, that was thought-provoking' kind. Fair enough then. Though even then, I still think its a mark of a story's quality if you're invested enough to ask the 'WTF?' questions. Random Doctor Who example... there's a million 'WTF?' questions that could be asked about either Warrior's Gate or 42, but with the second of those I just can't care enough to spend time thinking about them. The better a story the more questions of any kind you'll be left with, as the thing will bounce around in your brain longer. Sonic VEVIOS and the "aLL songs must end"....So he's gonna regenerate? or die?...weLL...if we're going by oLd ruLes he onLy has 3 regenerations Left anyway! If we're going by the old rules he's functionally immortal. It's if we're going by a popular '70s retcon that he only has 3 regenerations left. twisted Anna Mnemi Why did anyone think we'd want to see the origins of the Ood? Like the Doctor said, it didn't occur to him. It didn't occur to me. Did anyone wonder about that? Well, they certainly caught the public imagination first time round. While I doubt there was a specific clamour from the audience to see thier origins, people did want to see them again so from a storytelling perspective doing the 'Secret Origin of the Ood' is a neat way to extract them from the context of thier previous appearance and use them without bringing the narative baggage that would demand long exposition scenes to bring new viewers up to date.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:06 pm
Richard_Swift Anna Mnemi Richard_Swift Anna Mnemi I generally think that the less questions I have after an episode, the better it is. Funny old world. I always think the exact opposite. smile I mean the less 'wtf how the hell does that work?' kind of questions, not the 'oh, that was thought-provoking' kind. Fair enough then. Though even then, I still think its a mark of a story's quality if you're invested enough to ask the 'WTF?' questions. Random Doctor Who example... there's a million 'WTF?' questions that could be asked about either Warrior's Gate or 42, but with the second of those I just can't care enough to spend time thinking about them. The better a story the more questions of any kind you'll be left with, as the thing will bounce around in your brain longer. There's questions that you ponder and questions that just annoy you because there's no way of making it make sense, though. Richard_Swift Anna Mnemi Why did anyone think we'd want to see the origins of the Ood? Like the Doctor said, it didn't occur to him. It didn't occur to me. Did anyone wonder about that? Well, they certainly caught the public imagination first time round. While I doubt there was a specific clamour from the audience to see thier origins, people did want to see them again so from a storytelling perspective doing the 'Secret Origin of the Ood' is a neat way to extract them from the context of thier previous appearance and use them without bringing the narative baggage that would demand long exposition scenes to bring new viewers up to date. It might just have been me who didn't care at all, then. It's not that I thought it was a bad idea or that it didn't work well, I just wasn't really interested. *shrug*
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:02 pm
Anna Mnemi There's questions that you ponder and questions that just annoy you because there's no way of making it make sense, though. About the suddenness of the Ood transformation... obviously there's no story explanation for why it happens just then. We can try to rationalize it, however. For example, it may have happened when it did because he'd been scarfing down a lot more of the 'hair tonic' than normal due to the stress of the deteriorating situation (we do see a lot of scenes where he asks for the stuff). And Sigma, realizing that the time for the circle to be broken was rapidly approaching, might have been increasing the dose of the Oodifying substance. And perhaps the proximity to the Ood brain might have accelerated the process. From a real world biology perspective, a sudden transformation like doesn't make much sense, but there have been even worse cases in Doctor Who. Take, for instance, Dr. Lazarus's transformations in The Lazarus Project last season. Not only was he bouncing back and forth from normal guy to big bad monster in under a minute, but he was blatantly violating the rule of conservation of mass each time. I would think that would be even harder to justify. Edit: Oh, and on an unrelated note, my 4-year-old son was watching this with me. He normally likes the show (even though he doesn't really understand what's going on), but I think this one was too serious for him. He spent a lot of time yelling at the screen. Especially when all the Ood went red eye and everybody started dying.
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Hairy Priest Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:11 pm
Hairy Priest Anna Mnemi There's questions that you ponder and questions that just annoy you because there's no way of making it make sense, though. About the suddenness of the Ood transformation... obviously there's no story explanation for why it happens just then. We can try to rationalize it, however. For example, it may have happened when it did because he'd been scarfing down a lot more of the 'hair tonic' than normal due to the stress of the deteriorating situation (we do see a lot of scenes where he asks for the stuff). And Sigma, realizing that the time for the circle to be broken was rapidly approaching, might have been increasing the dose of the Oodifying substance. And perhaps the proximity to the Ood brain might have accelerated the process. From a real world biology perspective, a sudden transformation like doesn't make much sense, but there have been even worse cases in Doctor Who. Take, for instance, Dr. Lazarus's transformations in The Lazarus Project last season. Not only was he bouncing back and forth from normal guy to big bad monster in under a minute, but he was blatantly violating the rule of conservation of mass each time. I would think that would be even harder to justify. You should know that I also thought the entire plot of the Lazarus Experiment made no sense. XD But this episode was easier to rationalize.
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