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 Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:26 am
Never would I have guessed that so many people didn't understand this part in the game. Even though there are so many quotes in the game, and in the outside sources. I just posted a whole bunch of them, so enjoy: FFVII: Quote: Cloud "I never was in SOLDIER." "I made up the stories about what happened to me five years ago, about being in SOLDIER." "I left my village looking for glory, but never made it in to SOLDIER......" "I was so ashamed of being so weak; then I heard this story from my friend Zack..." "And I created an illusion of myself made up of what I had seen in my life....." "And I continued to play the charade as if it were true." (He straightens and nods.) Barret "Illusion, huh...? Pretty damn strong for a 'lusion, I'd say." This is the best quote, though we all know how messed up he gets in the game. We also know that during the entire game before he finds out who he is he's acting like some sort of hero, not the weak Cloud he describes himself as. Therefore, it's so simple to make the connection that what he does in the game that's Zack-like is in fact because he's taking on Zack's personality. And to those who still don't believe... the outside sources spell it out for you. XD CC Ultimania: Quote: In FF7, Zack is deceased. He appears when Sephiroth reveals Cloud’s fragmental memory. Since Cloud already loses sight of his true self and mixes up his memory with Zack’s, Zack’s portrait is still wrapped in mystery. What kind of person is Zack? What specifically has he done? Such puzzles are answered in CC. *Text near the img of Zack and Cloud in the truck, saying “Jack of all trades, Cloud. Let’s do whatever is requested.”: Although the scene with Zack and Cloud in their runaway journey is added in International version, the image of Zack is still blurred. The promise with Cloud is now made clear. In FF7, Cloud imitates Zack’s memory and personality because Jenova cell has the ability of copying. But if you follow the storyline of CC till the end, you’ll know that it’s not simply because the effect of Jenova cells, but also there’s a firm friendship and a men’s promise between them. Quote: His personality was formed not only by the intention of concealing such self, but also by the implanted Jenova cell which twisted what Zack went through as the base. In CC, Cloud’s weak side unfolds before us: it makes us realize the influence from Zack that affects Cloud. FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania: Quote: Due to the influence of the Jenova cells implanted in his body he acted out a false persona. Quote: A young swordsman, struggling with a fragile mind. Quote: Like in BC, Cloud first appears in CC as a 14 year old ShinRa troop. While still just a grunt, he aims to be in SOLDIER. He strikes up a friendship with Zack, a SOLDIER 1st Class; what influence will he have on Cloud, that would lead to Cloud imitating Zack's personality… The events running up to that will be shown in CC. Quote: As Cloud is trying to place the bomb, a mysterious voice speaks to him. Later, this same kind of mysterious voice resounds in Cloud's head in the scene where he and a voice have a conversation, and it offers him reminders. These voices are the original Cloud, as -- due to Hojo's Sephiroth Clones experiment -- Zack's personality merged with his, creating the present day Cloud, producing a conflict of multiple personalities Quote: Zack's personality had a heavy influence on the formation of Cloud's personality when he was under Jenova's control. And then of course we have CC. XD Crisis Core: Quote: Aerith's feelings for Zack explain why she acts the way she does around Cloud in FFVII.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:32 pm
FINALLY. Thank you. I have fought with a countless number of people on this subject and now I finally have all the quotes and details I need to back it up.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:58 pm
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." I saw that you posted this in the AC thread! Thank you so much for doing so. This plus CC just proves even moreso that Cloud was acting like Zack, and taking on his persona. . . and that Aeris saw Zack in Cloud.
It doesn't get any sweeter than this. =D
Cleris fans are left speechless, I see. ;O
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:31 pm
LunarSchemer "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." I saw that you posted this in the AC thread! Thank you so much for doing so. This plus CC just proves even moreso that Cloud was acting like Zack, and taking on his persona. . . and that Aeris saw Zack in Cloud.
It doesn't get any sweeter than this. =D
Cleris fans are left speechless, I see. ;O Woohoo we got em!! xd
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:56 pm
You are all welcome. Moral of the story? Balthea is awesome at research. XD
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:17 pm
Balthea You are all welcome. Moral of the story? Balthea is awesome at research. XD
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:41 pm
VanillaStar16 Balthea You are all welcome. Moral of the story? Balthea is awesome at research. XD *dances* XD I believe this should be playing right now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7tbddRS8lQ
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:16 pm
Balthea VanillaStar16 Balthea You are all welcome. Moral of the story? Balthea is awesome at research. XD *dances* XD I believe this should be playing right now. ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7tbddRS8lQ
Hahaha! *dances around in agreement*
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:48 pm
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Lol! I want to take a bunch of Cloti scenes and put it to that theme. XD
CLOTI LEVEL UP!
Cloti LEVEL: 99
Cleris LEVEL: 1.5
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:52 pm
LunarSchemer "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Lol! I want to take a bunch of Cloti scenes and put it to that theme. XD
CLOTI LEVEL UP!
Cloti LEVEL: 99
Cleris LEVEL: 1.5 Oh my GOSH you TOTALLY should. xd I would definitley favor it.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:01 pm
Heck yes! Finally we're getting somewhere! I feel like just shouting that to the world, lol. xd ZOMG, after all the years of debate, Square finally comes out to tell us! *Tears of joy*
I'm surprised that no Cleris fan has challenged Balthea's points.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:18 pm
*gigglesnort*
Who's speechless?
When I have the time I will reply and disprove your points peeps. Be prepared kiddos. cool
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Truthiness3x4 Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:39 pm
lol @ Pink : )
Sorry guys, but this passage kind of says it all for me:
Quote: She also had good feelings towards him. At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn’t get away from danger. She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him. She wanted to stay by his side forever if she could. She really wanted to.
Unless I miss interpreted it, it clearly states that Aeris loved Cloud more than she loved Zack and she wanted to stay by his side forever.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:03 pm
Kefka! *huggles* I miss the peoples on the guild D : <3
I posted this on a previous thread but I'll post it again here. In this reply I was proving how Cloud NEVER became Zack so his feelings for Aerith are genuine.Quote: Here is the exact FFVII dialogue from when Cloud confessed that he confused his memories with Zack. Quote: Cloud "I never was in SOLDIER. I made up the stories about what happened to me five years ago, about being in SOLDIER. I left my village looking for glory, but never made it in to SOLDIER... I was so ashamed of being so weak; then I heard this story from my friend Zack... And I created an illusion of myself made up of what I had seen in my life..... And I continued to play the charade as if it were true." Barret "Illusion, huh...? Pretty damn strong for an illusion, I'd say." Cloud "I'm physically built like someone in SOLDIER. Hojo's plan to clone Sephiroth wasn't that difficult. It was just the same procedure they use when creating members of SOLDIER.” Cloud "You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy. Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells... For better or for worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER. It has nothing to do with the Jenova Reunion. But weak people... like me, get lost in the whole thing." Cloud "The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weaknesses are what created me. Everyone knew that. I'm... Cloud." (He shakes his head sadly.) Cloud "...the master of my own illusionary world. But I can't remain trapped in an illusion any more... I'm going to live my life without pretending." Tifa "You're sure messed up, Cloud!" Barret "That means there ain't no difference from before!" thought that was intersting that Tifa says Cloud's messed up lol but anyways...Barret's quote I think says it all. Basically Cloud may have mixed up memories of Soldier with Zack but there is no difference from before. Cloud is Cloud, always has always will be. Now I think you have just dissaproved your entire 'theory'. You said that Clerith would be completely erased but that's obviously not true. After Aerith dies, after Cloud reconstructs his memories, he continues to talk about Aerith. He continues to fight because of her. Quote: Cloud "I know why I'm fighting. I'm fighting to save the planet, and that's that. But besides that, there's something personal too...A very personal memory that I have." Here is a quote right after Cloud admits mixing up his thoughts with Zack. Quote: (Cloud looks down) Cloud "I remember Aerith a lot. No... not that. You haven't remembered. You haven't forgotten. That's not it... How would you say it... Aerith was right there all along. Right by our side. She was so close, we couldn't see her. What Aerith did... The words she left behind..." Are you telling me this is Zack too? Because that's completely absurd! Cloud never mixed up anything about Aerith with Zack. His feelings for Aerith are his own, since he had never met Aerith w/Zack before and most importantly there is no evidence to back that up! Oh how about this... Quote: (Cloud touches his face.) Cloud "...Aerith. Aerith has already prayed for Holy ...After I gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth... Aerith's words came into my dreams..." Cloud "She said, she was the only one who could stop Sephiroth... And to do that, there was a secret here... That was Holy... That's why, she had the White Materia. Aerith knew about here... and what she had to do. Aerith has left us great hope. But, it cost her her life... her future..." Cloud "I'm sorry... Aerith. I should have figured this out sooner. ...You left us without saying a word... It was all so sudden, so I couldn't think... That's why it took so long for me to find out... But, Aerith... I understand now." Cloud "Aerith... I'll do the rest." Tifa "You mean, WE..." What do you think of that? Cloud seems to refer to only himself, like at the night at cosmo canyon and at the ending of FFVII. Even Tifa seems to realize it. : ] I guess that... Aerith+Death+Cloud=Cleris? YAW. Quote: would just like to note that Aeris is overly superficial if she defines Cloud's "individuality" as his gestures and his job title. XP Quote: Aerith's feelings for Zack explain why she acts the way she does around Cloud in FFVII.
You guys seem to say cleriths ignore the facts but you seem to be ignoring the most imporant source, FFVII.
Aerith outright says it all.
"Two completely different people
but look exactly the same"
So if Aerith is saying they are 2 completely different people that means that she realizes they are nothing alike. In just this sentence she admits that their personalities are nothing alike but it's that they LOOK exactly the same.
"The way you walk, gesture...
I think I must have seen him again, in you..."
Aerith is admitting that what originally attracted her to Cloud was the fact that he was like Zack. But it's not his personality that mirrored Zack, it was their similar physical traits such as the way they would walk or gesture.
Then Aerith shakes her head and says
"But you're different.
Things are different."
Aerith admits that Cloud is nothing like Zack and that she no longer loves zack, because things are different.
If that is not enough proof for you then I can always give you more. Though FFVII kinda proves it all. OH! and I agree completely with kefka that:Quote: Unless I miss interpreted it, it clearly states that Aeris loved Cloud more than she loved Zack and she wanted to stay by his side forever. Aerith has said this countless countless times in FFVII and in MoTP and yet still people like to ignore her words. It's like the only way for people to understand that Aerith doesnt love Zack anymore is if she shoots him in the face. xD
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![.[.pink.spider.].'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/8d/e7/20e4103e1de78d_flip.png?t=1252290266_6.00_00)
