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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:08 pm
Okay...
From almost everything that I have learned, studied, read, and practiced, and the people that I know personally that I talk with, Wiccans are witches. They are certainly not *just* witches, but they are indeed. Although I know that most witches probably aren't Wiccan.
First I would like to clear up how I would generally define "witch". Somebody who tries to be in tune with their environment, with themselves, and who practices magic (spelled with or without the k, it doesn't matter to me) who works with objects and energies (within and without) to create desired effects. It can be done by rituals, spells, thoughts, manipulation of energies, etc. I know that this encompasses a LOT of different ideas and can be subconsciously practiced by virtually everybody, so I wouldn't consider somebody a witch unless they considered themselves themselves as being so and practiced something consciously along those lines. There are other things involved too within the Wiccan context, although like I said, that would be my general description and can certainly vary.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that Wiccans don't have to practice this...especially since that's what a large portion of the religion was founded on, or so it seems (I know witchcraft isn't the main focus, just a part of it), although I'm not sure when or how the non-witch idea came into place. People tell me that I'm stupid and "fluffy" for thinking that Wiccans are witches (again, clarifying that not all witches are Wiccan), and I honestly find it upsetting. However, if I'm being completely off about something, please educate me, because I would rather not be ignorant. I know that some people say that Wicca doesn't have to deal with anything witchcraft related, but it just seems like they're talking about another type of new age practice. Some opinions would be nice.
edit: (from other post)
Ah, how many of you put it makes sense. It's just that, to me, witchcraft is a pretty broad definition, but I understand that we all define things differently. Personally, I focus more on the spiritual side of myself and nature, not just the "magical" side, although from my viewpoint magic is a part of everything and is spiritual within itself. Again, just my point of view. I understand that not all witches are even pagan. They come in all beliefs and religions. Even things such as healing (and prayer, ritual), to me, are magical, though the person may not define it as that themselves. Sorry if I offended anybody (or that was confusing) But thank you for your opinions.
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:44 pm
Well, I think that to be a Witch, you have to actually practice Witchcraft, or magic.
I've heard the saying that "All Wiccans are Witches, but not all Witches are Wiccan." I don't agree with the first part. Back when I considered myself Wiccan, I considered myself a Witch. But, I've never really practiced Witchcraft of magic (except for one dream spell that I did). So, I no longer consider myself a Witch.
Personally, I don't think it really matters. I don't understand why people get so upset over what makes someone a Witch or about whether or not they actually are a Witch. It's fine to disagree with them, but if they truly believe that they are/aren't a Witch, then they are/aren't. No one's going to change that.
I also think that Wicca is first and foremost a religion, and that magic/Witchcraft comes second. Really though, I think it depends on which Wiccan tradition you follow, as some emphasis magic more than others.
Basically, some Wiccans practice all of the Wiccan beliefs, magic included, while others don't. But that doesn't make the ones who don't any less Wiccan.
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:39 pm
What I have discovered is that people will argue over the slightest little thing. The important thing is how you define yourself. Who are you? Are you a Witch? Wiccan? Both? Neither? Do you like to practice your religion, but not magic? Or is magic what you are into? What is at your core? What are your beliefs? What others believe to be true, may be true for them, but not for you. But for some reason, many people think it necessary to "make" you believe what they say by forcing it down your throat. Be comfortable with who you are, and you will come out on top.
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:59 pm
Id have to kinda disagree..
in my opionon Wicca is not an eextention of witchcraft.Nor the other way around.
Witchcraft has long been in existense,before Wicca.What makes a person a witch in my book is someone who practices any form of magick.As simple as that.
Most witchs i know arent Wiccan.
But yeah....
Witchcraft is the Art or a witch and is therefore not an extention on Wicca itself but in a way a practice of its own.
Look at it this way, witchs preform rituals with the intention of harm is definatly not classed as a wiccan witch because that goes against what we are for.
I think that both Wicca and witchcraft are both 2 different things but they can mix....
You can be a witch without being wiccan
You can be wiccan without being a witch
You can be a witch AND wiccan
BLessingz
RikUizo
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:27 am
though that people say, wiccans are witches, but witches dont need to be wiccans, i say its the way you see it. Because witchcraft is indeed about magic, and wiccan is about knowledge of everything and wicca is more like a religion.
So you can be a magical wiccan or a non religious witch ^_^, if you get what i mean.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:28 am
rikuizo Id have to kinda disagree.. in my opionon Wicca is not an eextention of witchcraft.Nor the other way around. Witchcraft has long been in existense,before Wicca.What makes a person a witch in my book is someone who practices any form of magick.As simple as that. Most witchs i know arent Wiccan. But yeah.... Witchcraft is the Art or a witch and is therefore not an extention on Wicca itself but in a way a practice of its own. Look at it this way, witchs preform rituals with the intention of harm is definatly not classed as a wiccan witch because that goes against what we are for. I think that both Wicca and witchcraft are both 2 different things but they can mix.... You can be a witch without being wiccan You can be wiccan without being a witch You can be a witch AND wiccan BLessingz RikUizo I would have to agree with this statement, Wiccanism has only been around for what 50 years or so? While witchcraft has been around for hundreds of years.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:40 am
I also disagree... To be Wicca you basically have to believe in a goddess and a god. The duality of deity. You have to be Pagan to be Wicca but you do not have to be Pagan to be a witch. Witchcraft is more of a lifestyle. Not a religion like Wicca. I have known many Christian Witches that accept Jesus as the son of god.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:43 am
That's a walking contradiction of i've ever heard one.Unless they do not follow the bible.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:46 am
To be Christian you don't necessarily have to follow the biblical doctrine. You just have to accept that Jesus was the son of god and that he died for the sins of the world blah blah blah...
I know many Christians that do not practice alot of the stuff written in the bible. Don't you? Much like being a gay Christian is also a contradiction according to the bible, but many homosexuals embrace Christianity.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:33 am
According to Mike Nichols, witches and wiccans are the same thing.I don't know that I entirely agree with all of his points, mainly being that all witchcraft is inherently religious, but he does make some very good points. And, if he is correct about wicca being the original word for witch, then all wiccans are witches, at least in the literal sense. However... I think he ignores the fact that there's very limited proof that any of Gerald Gardner's information was actually based down to him in an unbroken line. Nichols argues that most people have a very limited and narrow view of what constitutes a religion, but I'd have to say that I disagree. We need to have a stringent view of what the word means or else we'd never be able to talk efficiently about it. Also, even if the original meaning of wicca was that of witch, it cannot be denied that things have changed in the world and the meanings of words change. Nowadays, if you say the word f** outside of Britain people think you mean a homosexual or one with "homosexual behaviors". Wicca, therefore, is now synonymous with the modern Religion, and no longer can mean simply a witch.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:30 pm
Fer33 To be Christian you don't necessarily have to follow the biblical doctrine. You just have to accept that Jesus was the son of god and that he died for the sins of the world blah blah blah... I know many Christians that do not practice alot of the stuff written in the bible. Don't you? Much like being a gay Christian is also a contradiction according to the bible, but many homosexuals embrace Christianity.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:10 pm
I always kinda thought along the lines of Wicca and Witchcraft going hand in hand, but of course you don't have to be Wiccan to be a witch since there are some Christians and Satanists out there that will call themselves witches but obviously have nothing to do with Wicca. I look as Wicca as the religion part and witchcraft as the more practical part, like going to church is the practical half of being a Christian....or whatever else they do...can't remember cause when I was "christian" I never did any of that stuff sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:53 pm
Ah, how many of you put it makes sense. It's just that, to me, witchcraft is a pretty broad definition, but I understand that we all define things differently 3nodding Personally, I focus more on the spiritual side of myself and nature, not just the "magical" side, although from my viewpoint magic is a part of everything and is spiritual within itself. Again, just my point of view. I understand that not all witches are even pagan. They come in all beliefs and religions. Even things such as healing, to me, are magical, though the person may not define it as that themselves. Sorry if I offended anybody whee But thank you for your opinions. 3nodding Quote: Personally, I don't think it really matters. I don't understand why people get so upset over what makes someone a Witch or about whether or not they actually are a Witch. It's fine to disagree with them, but if they truly believe that they are/aren't a Witch, then they are/aren't. No one's going to change that. I also think that Wicca is first and foremost a religion, and that magic/Witchcraft comes second. Really though, I think it depends on which Wiccan tradition you follow, as some emphasis magic more than others.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:43 pm
I view it pretty simply.
Wicca is a new religion. Wiccans follow Wicca. Wicca accepts witchcraft and encourages it in many cases.
Witchcraft is an old practice. Witches practice witchcraft.
Pick any or all titles that apply.
(Though I'm not entirely sure of the difference between a witch and a magician any more... or where Wicca becomes generic neopaganism, for that matter.)
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:13 pm
Hmm...I usually don't think of any kind of Wicca as being generic neo paganism. Because neo paganism can be a LOT of things, while Wicca has different structures.
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