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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:54 pm
Someone started a discussion in ED about the ethics of eternal life. I had this to say.
"I see immortality as terrible...If its wasted on the common idiot. Only those with brilliance, with unparalleled creativity, unbridaled genius, or something else that would better the world should ever have the option of living forever. Seeing eternal life handed out at frat parties, the GD, or churches would make me take my own life right now. I however, would like to live on, eternally. When I am all out of stories, all out of art, all out of ideas, and the world has nothing more to offer me, nor I it, I can sleep peacefully in my grave, but the world inspires me and new things are created every instant of every moment, of every second of every minute of every hour of every day. I will never throw it all away, if I had the choice. And to throw it away for what? Heaven? Hell? The more likely oblivion? Never. Not I. "
When I was very young, and I first learned that "old age," was a cause of death, I was horrified. My young mind reeled with the knowledge that all who were born would one day die. I have never been comfortable with my mortality, and I know that I never shall be...Those of you who have been here for long enough may find hints of my mortiphobia, though I am loathe to use the term, as a "phobia," is an irrational fear, an affliction. Unless you are religiously afflicted, who, other than those with less to offer than I would not fear death?
What are your thoughts or feelings on the matter?
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:33 pm
I do not fear death.
I don't think I can say that I've ever had any outstanding thoughts or fears about it.
It will happen when it happens.
So, live.
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:51 am
Corpsette I do not fear death. I don't think I can say that I've ever had any outstanding thoughts or fears about it. It will happen when it happens. So, live. Yeah...While you can.
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:21 pm
I think there's a difference between being afraid of death, and just flat out not wanting to die. Trying to pinpoint exact reasons why is a little tricky...and it's quite easy to argue that they are both the same. But I think that being afraid of death is mostly just the fear of the unknown, while not wanting to die because you have something to offer the world is something more...maybe like defying mortal existence. Does that make sense to anyone else?
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:35 pm
Torzeh I think there's a difference between being afraid of death, and just flat out not wanting to die. Trying to pinpoint exact reasons why is a little tricky...and it's quite easy to argue that they are both the same. But I think that being afraid of death is mostly just the fear of the unknown, while not wanting to die because you have something to offer the world is something more...maybe like defying mortal existence. Does that make sense to anyone else? i understand, but for me it is simply the fear of death.
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:36 pm
Matasoga Torzeh I think there's a difference between being afraid of death, and just flat out not wanting to die. Trying to pinpoint exact reasons why is a little tricky...and it's quite easy to argue that they are both the same. But I think that being afraid of death is mostly just the fear of the unknown, while not wanting to die because you have something to offer the world is something more...maybe like defying mortal existence. Does that make sense to anyone else? i understand, but for me it is simply the fear of death. Aha. If you understand it, then it made some sort of sense. That's always handy. I think I fear death too, because I'm afraid of most things unknown. My fears of dark water and pitch-black surroundings link into that too, so it makes sense.
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Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:28 pm
I fear death. And I'm very open about it. I have a chronic fear of the unknown - I can't swim in the ocean, I can't sleep in complete darkness, nothing like that. I also fear it because I'm a staunch atheist - I fear losing my consciousness. I know, it sounds like I have issues because I should be at peace with that but I'm not, and it's the main reason why I envy those with strong religious convictions - I just can't believe in it.
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:50 pm
Krissi-Chaos I fear death. And I'm very open about it. I have a chronic fear of the unknown - I can't swim in the ocean, I can't sleep in complete darkness, nothing like that. I also fear it because I'm a staunch atheist - I fear losing my consciousness. I know, it sounds like I have issues because I should be at peace with that but I'm not, and it's the main reason why I envy those with strong religious convictions - I just can't believe in it. I'm only seeing this now, but it's an interesting comment you made. Which is really more important to you? It's a matter between blind faith and comfort? Of course being a woman of faith yourself, the analogy is imperfect. Being so absolutely certain that there cannot be a God, without any evidence of his absence...Don't forget, hun, that that takes a lot of conviction, as well.
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Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:33 am
I'm not sure whether I would choose eternal youth over aging. Perhaps it is my lack of any real long term goals that makes it so, live or die, it won't matter. I care little should my life end now or many years later, though eternal rest sounds very tempting.
If living forever meant that I would never feel hungry or tired again, then I could focus on what I truly want to do instead of going by civilization's long and tedious system. I could go out and live in the wilderness without worry of starvation or illness...To say it simply I would become quite a sloth...But given all this time to rest and simply get away from the rut of life, I might think it would set me forth to progress my knowledge further. This being my most positive view of immortality.
Looking towards the bad, I indeed would need at least one other to accompany me through eternity (My best friend, complementing my mind so perfectly to make the two of us one unbreakable being). And were he to come along for the journey, I would admit that he would seek power. He would go forth to a goal of global domination and, upon achieving this, would hold the world for his own come the day time stops. A fate I may be less inclined to set upon Earth.
Yet, I do not last forever, so I can not know all of this for sure.
(copied and pasted from my recent adds to my own journal.)
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:18 pm
Matasoga Krissi-Chaos I fear death. And I'm very open about it. I have a chronic fear of the unknown - I can't swim in the ocean, I can't sleep in complete darkness, nothing like that. I also fear it because I'm a staunch atheist - I fear losing my consciousness. I know, it sounds like I have issues because I should be at peace with that but I'm not, and it's the main reason why I envy those with strong religious convictions - I just can't believe in it. I'm only seeing this now, but it's an interesting comment you made. Which is really more important to you? It's a matter between blind faith and comfort? Of course being a woman of faith yourself, the analogy is imperfect. Being so absolutely certain that there cannot be a God, without any evidence of his absence...Don't forget, hun, that that takes a lot of conviction, as well. Actually, my ex made the exact same comment - she said that I have a stronger faith as an atheist than most christians do, because I am so convinced that there is nothing. At the time I ignored it, but over the past four or so months I've been thinking about it. And my brain's just been running round in circles about it.
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:07 pm
Krissi-Chaos Matasoga Krissi-Chaos I fear death. And I'm very open about it. I have a chronic fear of the unknown - I can't swim in the ocean, I can't sleep in complete darkness, nothing like that. I also fear it because I'm a staunch atheist - I fear losing my consciousness. I know, it sounds like I have issues because I should be at peace with that but I'm not, and it's the main reason why I envy those with strong religious convictions - I just can't believe in it. I'm only seeing this now, but it's an interesting comment you made. Which is really more important to you? It's a matter between blind faith and comfort? Of course being a woman of faith yourself, the analogy is imperfect. Being so absolutely certain that there cannot be a God, without any evidence of his absence...Don't forget, hun, that that takes a lot of conviction, as well. Actually, my ex made the exact same comment - she said that I have a stronger faith as an atheist than most christians do, because I am so convinced that there is nothing. At the time I ignored it, but over the past four or so months I've been thinking about it. And my brain's just been running round in circles about it. To accept anything, even absence, when you have no proof, requires faith. I wouldn't say you have more faith than a Christian, but I wouldn't say you have less, either. It all depends on how sure you are and upon the certainty of the Christian in question.
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:21 pm
Ooh, a topic I've reflected on before...
I agree in that eternal life shouldn't be granted to any but those who might have something to contribute to the world, but that in itself is a cause of fear. If, say, one were granted eternal life, but knew that you would end simply because you have no new ideas at the time, would that not cause one to fear the lack of ability to come up with new thought and thus continue their existence?
I myself wish that I could live forever, if only to watch the progression of humanity and to aid in the development of every science. Yes, it's far too optimistic, but I did not specify a moral.
I have speculated wasting taxpayers' money on research to attempt to cure humans of the inevitable affliction of death, and I know I'd do just that entirely because I do, in fact, fear death, not because I don't know what will happen, but because I know I won't have been able to accomplish the publication of all my ideas. If I were to find myself dying, I would curse fate until my last breath.
Aside from my adamant dogmas, I do think that if all the personality in the world were to rid itself of all illusions of happiness sought to by religion, and settled to live with scientific fact, science itself would improve immensely, and such ideas as eternal life might become that much closer to realization.
(I feel like this thought is unfinished... feel free to point out any blank spots... sweatdrop )
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:11 pm
Personally, I couldn't tell you whether or not I fear death. That is not something that I've been particularly concerned about, though. The parts that I am concerned about, though, are when, how, and why I will die. I have at least accepted the fact that I will one day "pass on." While the ideas of immortality and reincarnation intrigue me, I find that I am as yet unable to wholly "believe in" either one.
Reincarnation, though it is a very interesting concept and at least makes an attempt to explain why we occasionally know some things that we are otherwise unable to understand, the part that would be the clincher is that there is no proof of it. Yes, that's right- me, the guy who is studying up on the heathen culture of the Norse, struggles to believe that. Hell, I struggle even to honestly believe in an afterlife. Rather than believing in it, though, I suppose it's more of something that I hope is true.
Immortality, on the other hand, is just as conceptual of a thought as reincarnation; the only difference between the two, obviously, is death- or, in this case, the lack thereof. Again, while this idea intrigues me at least as much as reincarnation, I find that it is very much something that I am loathe to truly long for, as I do not find the idea of watching my loved ones die around me time after time after time. Something about that idea is utterly repulsive to me. While I would dearly love to have the extra time to invest in my studies, I feel that I would most likely find myself little more than a shell of the man that I should be if I were immortal. Though there are few people that I actually care this much about, I find myself occasionally attached to different people and I would hate to seem them die, knowing that I would never again be able to see them even if there truly is an afterlife. To me, immortality would be a bittersweet victory over one of the most feared realities of mankind, as death is one of the very few things that we can neither wholly predict nor completely comprehend; such is the way of a true mystery, and the very reason that humankind, as a whole, fears it as much as it does.
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:01 pm
Eliae Darr Personally, I couldn't tell you whether or not I fear death. That is not something that I've been particularly concerned about, though. The parts that I am concerned about, though, are when, how, and why I will die. I have at least accepted the fact that I will one day "pass on." While the ideas of immortality and reincarnation intrigue me, I find that I am as yet unable to wholly "believe in" either one.
Reincarnation, though it is a very interesting concept and at least makes an attempt to explain why we occasionally know some things that we are otherwise unable to understand, the part that would be the clincher is that there is no proof of it. Yes, that's right- me, the guy who is studying up on the heathen culture of the Norse, struggles to believe that. Hell, I struggle even to honestly believe in an afterlife. Rather than believing in it, though, I suppose it's more of something that I hope is true.
Immortality, on the other hand, is just as conceptual of a thought as reincarnation; the only difference between the two, obviously, is death- or, in this case, the lack thereof. Again, while this idea intrigues me at least as much as reincarnation, I find that it is very much something that I am loathe to truly long for, as I do not find the idea of watching my loved ones die around me time after time after time. Something about that idea is utterly repulsive to me. While I would dearly love to have the extra time to invest in my studies, I feel that I would most likely find myself little more than a shell of the man that I should be if I were immortal. Though there are few people that I actually care this much about, I find myself occasionally attached to different people and I would hate to seem them die, knowing that I would never again be able to see them even if there truly is an afterlife. To me, immortality would be a bittersweet victory over one of the most feared realities of mankind, as death is one of the very few things that we can neither wholly predict nor completely comprehend; such is the way of a true mystery, and the very reason that humankind, as a whole, fears it as much as it does. People are not replaceable but the roles that they play in your life are. Hold on to the memories and find new people to fill the void that they leave. It would be best to leave your age category of friends to be as broad as possible so that the gaps between their deaths are (at least likely to be) broader and easier to bear than everyone leaving you at once. Obviously I don't believe in it. In fact I find it unlikely that even stem cell research will allow for the average life expectancy to 100 years in our lifetimes. Science cannot give me what I want. I believe that nothing can. I cannot help but dream of it, still.
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:14 pm
Matasoga People are not replaceable but the roles that they play in your life are. Hold on to the memories and find new people to fill the void that they leave. It would be best to leave your age category of friends to be as broad as possible so that the gaps between their deaths are (at least likely to be) broader and easier to bear than everyone leaving you at once. Obviously I don't believe in it. In fact I find it unlikely that even stem cell research will allow for the average life expectancy to 100 years in our lifetimes. Science cannot give me what I want. I believe that nothing can. I cannot help but dream of it, still. While the roles that they play my be replaceable, that's not the issue that I would be having. I'm sure it would take me very little time to get someone else to "fill the void" as my friends slowly die- which is the exact problem that I'd have.
It's not replacing the role- it's just having to watch my friends die, knowing that there was nothing that I could do about it. Personally, it's for this reason that, if I were given the choice between eternal life or reincarnation (regardless of whether or not I could remember previous lives), I would choose reincarnation. The thought of watching my friends die knowing that I never will would be too much for me, I think.
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