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 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:43 pm
Long ago, when I first got into the whole Lolita scene, many people described Lolita as a lifestyle. Now, years later, most people consider it just a fashion. Honestly, I think all those little Otakus found out that it's not easy to discipline yourself in manners, proper etiquette, language, conservative, and demure-ness nature of the Lolita. Not that I expected anything different.
I am curious as to if people see SP as an entire lifestyle or just a fashion/literary movement. For myself, I have been stuck in the Victorian age loooong before I knew of Steampunk. Many people who first meet me are convinced I must be from from stuffy, aristocratic British family due to my behaviors, mannerisms, and speech (even though I do not have an English accent, it seems that actually articulating your speech is enough to make you European. Hah, America is in such a sad state of affairs!). I've been surrounding myself with facets of Victoriana and SP for years now, so I consider myself to be of a SP lifestyle.
In my personal opinion, by pushing to keep SP as a lifestyle and not just a fashion movement (which it slowly seems to be becoming), it would weed out the squealing, rough, uncultured little ruffians who could easily poison and taint the true steampunks.
Forgive me if I come off as terribly cruel, but I am interested as to others thoughts on this matter.
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:51 pm
For myself at least, I consider Steampunk as a lifestyle - that is combining the mannerisms, influence of science, general attitude to life, etc.; as well as of course fashion, music and literature.
Whilst one may argue the literature 'came first' - I would say that the literature is more simply an 'embodiment' of aforementioned ideals and traits of Steampunk as a whole. (Maybe it did come first - but that doesn't make steampunk just the literature).
In the case of fashion and music, these are perhaps just fashion and music of a steampunk nature.
Personally, I developed as Steampunk purely by chance. I have a great love for science as well as the Victorian era - both coming to together as steam power - as well as other contributions (myself being British, and some would say 'posh', being one of them).
In summary: Steampunk is more a quality of something, and thus a lifestyle - media merely representing it as such.
I would like to support my view point by suggestion that many would call victorian dress or airshipcrew gear as 'steampunk fashion' - not just steampunk - suggesting that steampunk is a quality of said fashion, not the fashion itself.
~
However, I'm sure for many people only one particular 'area' of steampunk holds any real appeal for them, so that's where they focus their area of interest. So people may like Steampunk purely for the fashion (which I consider a little odd, as surely to enjoy it one must also appreciate things such as cogs and the aesthetic of the Victorian era).
But can Steampunk ever 'just' be a fashion? I say how could it ever be - it is far more than that. Even if you were to look at the fashion, you would notice influence from a variety of sources that make up steampunk.
~ Ramble over. My sincerest apologies if I came across as pretentious. I did rather go on longer than I had intended.
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:59 pm
I'd have to go for the lifestyle, though fashion is a fair part of it, as you demonstrate so stylishly.
Also, w00t! for Helsing
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:55 pm
I would have to agree that it is a lifestyle. Although I would also have to state that ones definition of a lifestyle is subject to what he or she either believes constitutes as a lifestyle, or what they can manage to make it a lifestyle. Some people are just lazy, some don't have the time to get down to the nitty-gritty of what would be labelled as a lifestyle, and some cannot go all out due to financial issues or other problems.
I can understand how you feel about such a subject concidering the differences between a lifestyle and simply a fashion, but what if the fashion of the genre is all that some people like? Or what if, like I said earlier, they cannot afford to partake in every aspect of the genre for one reason or another? While the mannerisms of the Victorean era are quite nice, especially in this day and age when the word "polite" seems to have become nothing but an echo of what it once was, there is not much room in our society for people to live in such a way. Humans are predominantly judgemental. If something doesn't fit into their catagory of normal, then that which is abnormal often suffers greatly. Some people can't handle the pressures of what others think about them, and so they would rather just sacrifice excercising the things that make them seem very wierd and simply excercise that which is a little more acceptable within society.
I personally like the lolita fashion. If I were a woman, I would definitely at least try to emulate the lolita lifestyle. But I know that I would hardly ever be able to practice it to its fullest due to my current living conditions, financial status, and lack of access to the most of the things that make up the lolita lifestyle. Due to that, I would lean more towards simply participating in the fashion side of the genre rather than the mannerisms of the genre.
I can say the same about myself when it comes to steampunk. I lack the money and access to most of the things that make steampunk what it is. Not to mention that my skills with a needle are terrible. Due to this, I would still say that steampunk is a lifestyle for me, but a restricted one.
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:16 pm
I have to agree on the financial points. I, believe it or not, come from a very poor family. For most of my life, we were living on food stamps and worrying about rent. Things have gotten a little better, and I have a few bucks to spend, but I have a magical eye for a bargain, and I also save most of what I earn. I may not be able to have the most amazing steampunk outfit, but I still believe that I am of the lifestyle, even though I own a cheap pair of goggles. xp My wardrobe (and it's rather small and nothing special) has taken years to accumulate.
I am also living in the bubble that is California. A semi-costumed person walking in the city is not that much cause for alarm here in the San Francisco area. It's quite a freeing feeling. As far as I know, there are already a few SP groups, and the Annual Edwardian/Steampunk ball is held here (which I had the privilege of attending this year). I find that I live a double life, which I imagine most people of a subculture would do - for school and work, I am a normal individual with only subtle hints as to my private life given off by my mannerisms and perhaps a few accessories. At night, I lose myself in the 1800s, and insist on being dressed up when I go out with friends.
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:27 am
Hmm... Well for me it's a mix.
As a fashion i enjoy being dressed nicely, taking to shine my boots and use matchng laces, tie a complicated tie-knot, wear a waistcoat ands such.
Actually that's what appeals to me in the lifestyle as well.
Taking a honour in a job well done, the thought that not only should a watch show time, it should do it whilst being appealing to the eye, even when taken apart the parts should be well made.
And a the technology really appeals to me as well, in mechanical workings it is possible to disassemble and reassemble anything, as long as you take care to look what you are doing and not break anything.
Especially opposed to modern electronics where a static spark or a little sweat can ruin it without it being visible to the eye.
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:27 am
Antlers I have to agree on the financial points. I, believe it or not, come from a very poor family. For most of my life, we were living on food stamps and worrying about rent. Things have gotten a little better, and I have a few bucks to spend, but I have a magical eye for a bargain, and I also save most of what I earn. I may not be able to have the most amazing steampunk outfit, but I still believe that I am of the lifestyle, even though I own a cheap pair of goggles. xp My wardrobe (and it's rather small and nothing special) has taken years to accumulate.
I am also living in the bubble that is California. A semi-costumed person walking in the city is not that much cause for alarm here in the San Francisco area. It's quite a freeing feeling. As far as I know, there are already a few SP groups, and the Annual Edwardian/Steampunk ball is held here (which I had the privilege of attending this year). I find that I live a double life, which I imagine most people of a subculture would do - for school and work, I am a normal individual with only subtle hints as to my private life given off by my mannerisms and perhaps a few accessories. At night, I lose myself in the 1800s, and insist on being dressed up when I go out with friends. I am almost in the exact same boat as you. My father was a member of the Navy for the first six years of my life, and our family relied a lot on the military to keep living comfortably. Then things kind of turned went down the drain when my old man was relieved of duty during former president Clinton's military cut-backs, and we weren't paid the money the Navy still owed us for his service(they broke his contract by relieving him, and so by law were required to pay him the minimum of what he would have earned had he continued for the last three years of his contract). For a long time after we moved from California(We were only an hour-long drive from good old San Francisco, fany that?) to Washington, there was a lot of uncertainty about how we were going to be able to stay off the streets. We've never once owned our own house since I've been alive. It's taken us ten years, but we're at a point where we can live relatively comfortably, although we still have to restrict how much money we spend on luxuries. I'm pretty sure that you would be right about the double-life comment for those of us who enjoy such lifestyles. My how I love this guild! It's nice to have an actual intelligent conversation with someone every now and then.
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:29 am
I would love to say that it's a lifestyle for me but unfortunatley, my deep set anachronism for all things in the past in not nearly enough to condition me to the refined life of neo- victorianism. I'n nearly ashamed to be modern... *sad*
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:11 pm
Not just fashion, but an aesthetic movement. For me, it's all about things looking pretty or, in the case of literature, having an exotic sense of adventure and rebellion. Plus steam.
I don't see it -- for myself, anyway -- as a lifestyle. Nor is lolita, but I'm into that too. I'm not very fond of the general feeling in both of these communities (although the lolita community is getting better, the SP community is still fairly judgmental) that you can't just LIKE things, you have to BE things.
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:32 pm
I would love for Steampunk to be a lifestyle for myself, but I happen to be from Alabama, where I get frowned upon for dressing in certain ways. (not that I allow that to deter me most of the time.) Also, certain additude problems associated with certain mental issues I have do not allow me to always act in a way that is viewed as proper. Also, as per usual, my weight is an issue. I am inept at making things (learning is fun though), but thankfully it seems that the Steampunk community is steering slowly away from the "to be Steampunk, you must create things" mentality.
I suppose I fit in the category of a an only slightly cultured ruffian. ^_Q
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:36 am
My deepest apologies for being such an intellectual outcast in this field of understanding, but I simply do not see this as a lifestyle. It is an aesthetic.
(I tend to find it absolutely impossible to fit myself into a single "way" of living. I was atypical in high school, not fitting into any solid stereotype [goth, jock, nerd] except possibly "strange". My behavior can be stiffly refined, or [I do say!] foul-mouthed and outright crude, or childish and whimsical. Just a little background information.)
Even though I do love the steampunk attire, I cannot force myself to think in a manner I do not. I am not a true steampunk, and never will be.
As for the outside world... *shrug* I do not think of myself as an expert in matters concerning the social psyche, and therefore cannot know what others think of this. Although if Something Awful is any indication, they think of it as fairly "faggy" and "stupid". I have seen two threads concerning steampunk in their forums, one even comparing steampunk to furries. Whether they think of it as a lifestyle or a fashion, they do not think highly of it.
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:06 pm
Note: I'm sure some people may take what I am about to say the wrong way - but to those such people and others I am not meaning to insult them - just put forward my own thoughts. Feel free to disagree.
With regards to the various comments saying it is an aesthetic movement (etc.) I would say that it is.
This is not to say that such people believe and have said it is the only facet of steampunk at all
However, I believe to say that that is all SP is would be akin to folly; for one as it denies to rather un-aesthetic steampunk fiction. Sure, maybe things in it may be described artistically, but it itself (and numerous things in it) aren't.
To say it is just one thing is to deny all the other ways something could be described as SP, be that because of the manner it does things (i.e. steam engines), the general anachronism, perhaps the rather odd sound of steampunk music (which could be argued as being aesthetic) - or perhaps just the general manner and interests of someone who commits themselves to SP.
You don't have to follow the lifestyle to enjoy the aesthetics of steampunk; but there are some of us who 'do' - myself purely be happenstance, not some mad pathetic desire to belong, I might add. Some of us simply belong in the past.
With regards to those who believe it may just be an aesthetic movement - I'm not out-right disagreeing with you; I'm just putting forward my views that their are many other facets of steampunk (which perhaps come together in people to form something of a lifestyle).
In short:
Aesthetic? Yes. - but not always
Lifestyle? Yes - although you can like SP without 'being' SP.
Other things as well? Yes. e.g. music, literature, mechanism, ethos, mannerisms, approach to life and learning
All or nothing? No.
~ On other notes:
@Taluria: The create things mentality is kind of flawed - as some people just aren't that crafty (myself included). Why should craftiness by a prerequisite to be steampunk?
Also, slightly-cultured-ruffians ftw.
@Skizzors: Maybe there are some people like that; I just view being something and liking it as different things - and I would never assume either better than the other.
@Jasper: I have something of a disdain towards Something Awful, it seems if they don't like it it must be absolutely dreadful, and anyone who likes it a poor suffering idiot.
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:16 pm
Vanghar: You just did a very good job of summing up my beliefs about SP, actually. It's not JUST an aesthetic/literary movement -- but I meant to dispel the idea that it has to go beyond just that. I'm not saying those steampunks who dress the part and make fancy keyboards and what-all aren't, as that would be beyond silly, but that you don't have to do those things as a prerequisite to enjoying steampunk. Yes, it is all of that, but's it also just books and ideas too.
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:45 pm
Kiryu the Steel Dragon I personally like the lolita fashion. If I were a woman, I would definitely at least try to emulate the lolita lifestyle. But I know that I would hardly ever be able to practice it to its fullest due to my current living conditions, financial status, and lack of access to the most of the things that make up the lolita lifestyle. Due to that, I would lean more towards simply participating in the fashion side of the genre rather than the mannerisms of the genre. Uuuuhhhhhmmmm... I hope that everyone knows what the Lolita lifestyle actually is and proposes is a good thing... If not, I would go check out the Wikipedia entry on the novel the term comes from. I have no problems with Lolita fashion, but there are laws against the Lolita lifestyle and wisely so. I think if more people knew what the term was from originally, they wouldn't be as quick to invoke the term. And, no, it doesn't come from Gothic Lolita. sweatdrop Berz.
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