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rockerpixie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:48 pm


What is your stance on illegal immigration?
Should illegal immigrants receive the same rights and services as legal immigrants?
How do you think a country should handle illegal immigration?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:25 pm


Every country has to handle the issue as their legal system dictates. This varies widely by country.

Speaking for America since that is what I know, yes, we have a problem. We have a lot of ah, undocumented immigrants. They still receive services once here which strains the infrastructure for cities all along our southern border. Speaking for the local situation, our local ER's in the Inland Empire are just swamped 24/7. It takes hours to be seen. This is in part (obviously there are multiple factors) due to the fact that even an Mexican here illegally can come in for emergency care. That gets used, a LOT.

We've got to make some good decisions soon or we're going to make living within 100 miles of the border simply unfeasible.

IMHO we've got to quit giving away all those services to those not here legally. If they don't get all sorts of freebies for coming here, the ones that will still come will be a lot more likely to be honest workers rather than shify underground types. Second, we also have to give in some by lifting all those silly quotas. Let the people in if they are willing to go through the lex soli (naturalization) process. Also we need to revisit the fee system so that it does not become as insurmountable a barrier as the quotas are. The fee should not be too much. Special consideration should be made for los migrantes, those who work in our agriculture. Since they move with the harvest seasons, they should not have to stay in one area to go through the process but should be able to fufill requirements on the road. Lastly we need to make some better efforts at getting immigrants more included in the mainstream. There are parts of Riverside where I dare not do business because I am not Hispanic and I don't speak Spanish fluently enough. You're just not welcome if you're not one of them. That goes too far for me. I don't mind them running a business-- I welcome that-- but it needs to be one where anyone can visit and buy.

I think this nation would fear 10 million Americans in the naturalization process a LOT less than 10 million immigrants who aren't including themselves in the American culture but still want to eat their cake-- i.e. benefits.

Ladygaura
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munchkin
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:56 pm


I believe we should allow immigrants in freely and allow them to come and work here its a good thing.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:45 pm


I have a lot of sympathy for immigrants. They leave their countries, and many times their families, to go into a foreign country and work. However, I recognize that illegal immigration [in the United States] is a problem.

Here's an idea. "Let's build a wall!" says the government. The idea of building a wall along our borders is absurd and unacceptable. Not only will that ruin many natural habitats, but what message does that send the rest of the world? "Stay out."

Here's another idea! "Let's collect illegal aliens and deport their asses back to Mexico", says several state-level governments. Rounding up illegal immigrants like cattle, and tearing families apart is DISGUSTING. They're human beings... honestly, the only people who deserve to be deported are violent criminals... not hardworking mothers and fathers.

The only way to fix illegal immigration is to do that "American-thing". You know... where we go into a country and decide to "fix" it... although we need a lot of repairs ourselves... We could help them with their economies, create more jobs, whatever... but since it's the government we're talking about, they wouldn't do it just to do it... Too bad Mexico drills and controls the production of their own oil. rolleyes [Note my sarcasm in this last sentence.]

rockerpixie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:02 am


Japan was completely closed off from the rest of the world in the 16th and 17th centuries, I believe. I know Japanese art heavily influenced France in the 1860s, because right before the French World's Fair in 1867 Japan opened up to the world.
The French heart Japan.

G*d damn this Visual Language & Culture class, making me use this info in everyday life. It's a freaking Art History class! I took Art History already! I don't want to go to Modern Art museum! You don't make a fine artist go to a Modern Art Museum. Honestly. rolleyes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:21 am


Illegals do the jobs we don't want to do. If we don't keep them around you'll be picking fruit and cleaning toilets.

Siegfried Kiefter


rockerpixie
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:17 pm


slam-skull
Illegals do the jobs we don't want to do. If we don't keep them around you'll be picking fruit and cleaning toilets.


I know! Many people don't understand that. I can't stand it when I see these idiots on television say, "Them aliens are takin' our jobs away!" That is NOT the case. They are doing the jobs most of us don't want to do... and for as little as they're getting paid. And about the decreasing number of available jobs out there for Joe Somebody... the problem is with job outsourcing, not illegal immigration. [note: see "job outsourcing" in debate forum]
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:17 pm


I believe that if you have your papers (Social Security, I.D. etc.) then you can suceed in this country, so the fact that immigrants are taking the jobs of Americans does not pass by me.

With the idea that immigrants are getting benefits, thats a lie. The only way that you're getting benifits is if you have a social security and other types of papers. Since you have such documentation, then you pay income taxes. And everybody, legal or not, pays taxes; its called sales tax.

It is difficult to obtain citizenship and it is a long process. I believe that there has to be some kind of documentation to know where illegal immigrants are. I also know that not all people who migrate are here for good intentions. I know some are just here to rip of the government and to be lazy. However, it is not fair that all should pay for those few.

XK_Mari


Pick_A_Song

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:23 pm


munchkin
I believe we should allow immigrants in freely and allow them to come and work here its a good thing.


I COMPLETELY disagree with you.

I think that would cause a lot of disorder and chaos

not saying this is exactly the same but how would you like it if people could just walk right into your house and live there without any questions asked?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:56 pm


Pick_A_Song
munchkin
I believe we should allow immigrants in freely and allow them to come and work here its a good thing.


I COMPLETELY disagree with you.

I think that would cause a lot of disorder and chaos

not saying this is exactly the same but how would you like it if people could just walk right into your house and live there without any questions asked?
You're right.

Plus, the immigration system needs to be fixed so people won't have to get here illegally.

rockerpixie
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munchkin
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:37 pm


Pick_A_Song
munchkin
I believe we should allow immigrants in freely and allow them to come and work here its a good thing.


I COMPLETELY disagree with you.

I think that would cause a lot of disorder and chaos

not saying this is exactly the same but how would you like it if people could just walk right into your house and live there without any questions asked?
Actually I'd pretty much be fine with that, but still people shouldn't be classified as illegal, we are all human beings of this planet, and no one should be told they cant go some where to try and make their life better because they are supposedly "illegal".
The reason they come here is because of America in the first place, for one we back their corrupt government, and we allow corporations here in America get as big as they get, then those corporations put other small farmers in Mexico out of business, then they have no choice but to come here and try and find a better life. Americans have no right to blame anyone about immigrants coming here but themselves, as long as you continue buying from the corporations that are putting small farmers out of business then you are the reason these immigrants come here, if you really don't want them to come stop consuming, and buying from huge corporations, buy locally.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:14 pm


munchkin
Pick_A_Song
munchkin
I believe we should allow immigrants in freely and allow them to come and work here its a good thing.


I COMPLETELY disagree with you.

I think that would cause a lot of disorder and chaos

not saying this is exactly the same but how would you like it if people could just walk right into your house and live there without any questions asked?
Actually I'd pretty much be fine with that, but still people shouldn't be classified as illegal, we are all human beings of this planet, and no one should be told they cant go some where to try and make their life better because they are supposedly "illegal".
The reason they come here is because of America in the first place, for one we back their corrupt government, and we allow corporations here in America get as big as they get, then those corporations put other small farmers in Mexico out of business, then they have no choice but to come here and try and find a better life. Americans have no right to blame anyone about immigrants coming here but themselves, as long as you continue buying from the corporations that are putting small farmers out of business then you are the reason these immigrants come here, if you really don't want them to come stop consuming, and buying from huge corporations, buy locally.


I still disagree with you

if they are breaking the law it's illegal same as any criminal in the us that was born here.

and we don't really like Mexico and Mexico doesn't really like us so how are we supporting them?

Pick_A_Song


BubbleBerry Tea

Liberal Witch

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:59 pm


We don't really have anything against Mexico... They're just not our BFF. And y'know, if we're putting farmers in Mexico out of business, it's the Mexican people's fault, not ours. The entire idea of capitalism is to compete. If Mexicans buy our products instead of products from their own country, they're hurting themselves. We are not the ones at fault.

About the hospital problems that Ladygaura (may I call you Lady?) brought up... Yes, I do agree that we shouldn't be giving these benefits to the illegal immigrants. If they want our benefits, they should become citizens. But hospitals are open to everyone. Doctors have a code that they must treat everyone, no discrimination. Criminals, murderers, rapists... all of them have the right to a doctor in extreme cases. So the fact that your emergency rooms are crowded is a problem, but not one we can rightfully solve by saying "illegal immigrants need to go away."

And yes, the illegal immigrants do the work that we don't want to do...
So what? We should allow them here just for that?
No. No no no.

I say this for two reasons. One: even if people don't want to do those jobs, people still need jobs. You've got to get food on the table one way or another, so a lot of people will suck it up, get over their pride, and pick up garbage for a living. Two: It's our responsibility to clean up our messes. If we have unpleasent jobs that need to be done, we should do them ourselves, not expect people from another country to come and do them for cheaper than we would expect to be paid. It's irresponsible, immoral, and, quite frankly, completely unfair.

I don't know what can be done about illegal immigration at this point. It's gotten pretty bad. Of course a wall won't help. People can (and have) climb(ed) walls. I believe that we should offer legalization for the ones already here, a chance to... redeem themselves, if you will. The ones here already have built families and reputations, and there is no reason to take those things away from them.

But we need to find a way to keep people from coming in illegally. We can barely afford to take care of ourselves, especially with the economic troubles we're facing, let alone citizens of other countries.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:21 pm


The big corporations that are putting the small farmers out of business can afford to sell their goods cheaper then the farmers, and plus the corporations can farmer a lot faster and get more from one day of farming because they can afford large amounts of labor, and large amounts of machines to help the process. Capitalism is a horrible thing it just makes people suffer. I don't see how people besides the ones gaining from it can actually try and justify capitalism because its just so wrong in so many ways, it gives to many people an unfair advantage. all corporations should be owned by the country they're in so that all money made can be used to pay their workers living wages, and the rest of the money can go back in to the country for social services. If "amerka" wasn't so preoccupied with things like this pointless war, we could be providing services for the citizens, things like free health care, which is a basic right guaranteed to the citizens of many other countries, but no not here because all "amerka" cares about is the corporations and not the citizens.

munchkin
Vice Captain


BubbleBerry Tea

Liberal Witch

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:25 pm


munchkin
The big corporations that are putting the small farmers out of business can afford to sell their goods cheaper then the farmers, and plus the corporations can farmer a lot faster and get more from one day of farming because they can afford large amounts of labor, and large amounts of machines to help the process. Capitalism is a horrible thing it just makes people suffer. I don't see how people besides the ones gaining from it can actually try and justify capitalism because its just so wrong in so many ways, it gives to many people an unfair advantage. all corporations should be owned by the country they're in so that all money made can be used to pay their workers living wages, and the rest of the money can go back in to the country for social services. If "amerka" wasn't so preoccupied with things like this pointless war, we could be providing services for the citizens, things like free health care, which is a basic right guaranteed to the citizens of many other countries, but no not here because all "amerka" cares about is the corporations and not the citizens.


Free healthcare is a bad idea because our medical advances would take a serious hit. Once medical help is made socialized, the medical workers don't try so hard, because they won't do any better or any worse financially for their work. If you don't believe me, you can do your own research; capitalist economies, at least generally, have better technological advances. The end.

Capitalism is how we move forward. I'm sorry that you disagree, but it's true.

So no, it still is not our fault if our corporations are putting small shops and farmers out of business. It's the consumers' fault for buying our goods.

By the way, I'm for capitalism completely, and I don't make money off of it. That's a horrible stereotype.
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