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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:48 am
As we know, the second amendment of the Constitution gives us the right to bear arms. Do you feel that people are responsible enough to own weapons? What is your opinion on gun control?
*Note* To those who don't live in the United States, please share your opinion. Do you think people, in general, should own guns? What do your country's laws say about gun control?
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:32 pm
Gun control isn't really a major issue in New Zealand. A couple of minor parties disagree with the current laws but apart from that everyone (including me) seems happy with them. Wikipedia New Zealand gun law is covered by the Arms Act 1983 and the Arms Regulations 1992. In order to own a firearm, a person must obtain a firearms license. These are issued by the police and enable holders to own and use sporting rifles, shotguns and ammunition. In order to obtain a license, applicants must pass a test on 'safe and responsible firearms use, ownership, and storage'. They must also be a 'fit and proper person' to hold a license, based on a background check, and the license may be revoked for a variety of reasons. A special license is required by dealers, collectors, pistol club members, and owners of certain semi-automatic firearms. Less than 3% of all firearms owners have such endorsements and they must comply with much more stringent conditions than sporting firearms license holders. When not in use firearms must be locked in a secure rack and cabinet. Of course it's a more delicate issue in the United States. Honestly I'm not sure where I stand there.
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:54 pm
Guns, especially handguns, assault rifles etc. should all be illegal and gotten rid of. Places like Japan have extremely strict gun laws and they only have 39 gun related deaths a year opposed to America's 11,000 + deaths a year. Admittedly we have gotten our selfs so far that its almost impossible to completely get rid of guns here in America, if we where to take out the 2nd amendment people would be angry as hell. We need to start by fallowing the District of Colombia and banning all handguns, that is a great start, then from there we need to make people go through extreme programs to get a license so they can own maybe a rifle for things like hunting. In March they'll be looking at the second amendment and thinking about making some changes, and this will be the first time they've done that since the 70's. The huge amounts of violence from guns isn't just the fact that guns are so available, it also is just the way American society it's always been this way since. When we arrived here, we killed native Americans in fear, then freed slaves, then each other. Our whole thing about Americans wanting guns is because everyone is afraid. It's been proven that minorities are more feared then white males, so basically since the majority of white people are all freaked out that some African American "gang member" will come and kill them, people feel they need to have guns. 95% of guns are purchased by white middle class citizens who live in nice suburbs. Its because of stereotypes that people feel fear, and then from that fear larger things can happen cause those people buy a gun to "defend" themselves, things like their kid could get a hold of it and kill them self, or go on a rampage, or kill their parents, etc. Guns only cause bad things to happen.
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:25 pm
I'm opposed to gun control as all it will do is but more power in the hands of criminals and politicians, ah but I repeat myself. And an individual has the right to accumulate weapons for the purpose of self-defense; it's a basic human right that must not be impended upon. Also a person can just build a gun from scratch, just like with any weapon. Also there’s no way in hell that I'm going to leave my life to the mercy of the states goons (the police). If I left my life in the hands of the police, there's a good chance I'll be dead by the time they arrive. However, if I have a gun of my own to rely on, my survival odds are MUCH better. You see, cops don't really "prevent" crime, they more "clean up" when a crime is attempted. However, an individual with a firearm has plenty of power to prevent assaults to their person or property. Also I must say to any one who says something along the lines of "join the police or military if you want a gun", that's equivalant to saying if you have something controversial to say get a job in the media. Rights aren't profession-specific things.
Not to mention I have this strange fear of the government gaining power. And lets not forget the right to revolt; also prohibition didn't work for alcohol or other types of drugs, why in the hell would it work for guns? Personaly I need a gun in case the Statists decide to break in my house again. Yeah I'm not so much worried about the gangs in my neighboorhood because they usually just stick to vandalism and petty theft, it's the the State that scares me.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:06 pm
RedDragon, I find myself in deep agreement with you once again.
Here in CA, police "may" come to the aid of people in peril. Believe it or not, that's may, not shall. They are so busy fighting easy crime and handing out speeding tickets that sometimes they don't come to a break-in or whatever if they don't think you're at immediate risk. Not your decision but theirs.
To heck with that, I say! I have not cared for my family just to have some gangster mow us down (oh yeah, and don't try calling about gang related stuff in my town on a Friday-Sunday-- they work only four days a week, and not when the gangs are working, apparently). I have my ways.
Another thing. Where gun control begins, knife and blade laws soon follow. this can even extend to ceremonial swords and knives, and in one pathetic case, letter openers-- Palm Springs CA once forbade those in public. Kansas forbids any dagger or double edged blade unless you are actively hunting. To heck with Pagan athames, I guess.
Also, what about the collector who wants an AK-47 not because they ever want to use it, but they just admire its deadly beauty? I actually know someone like that. He owns dozens of guns, far more than he would ever actually need. For him, it's his passion and essentially he is a sollector.
One last thing. I talked recently to someone from Kenesaw GA. They actually require gun ownership in that town. I asked him about the crime rate in that town out of genuine curiosity. He basically asked me "What crime?" apparently it's virtually nonexistent.
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:05 pm
I sit on the fence when it comes to gun control. Personally, I hate guns. I hate them with a passion. Nothing positive can come from a gun... only death. However, I can't think of anything more comforting to own when you hear the noise of someone breaking into your home in the middle of the night.
I don't think Americans are ready, or willing to give up the second amendment... and realistically I can't see it happening. However, we should get stricter when it comes to guns. The idea of people carrying guns around the streets, and out of their homes is unsettling. I feel that we should get modify "concealed-carry", and make it that guns stay in the home, or in the trunk of a car... not in a glove compartment or a pocket.
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:17 pm
rockerpixie I sit on the fence when it comes to gun control. Personally, I hate guns. I hate them with a passion. Nothing positive can come from a gun... only death. However, I can't think of anything more comforting to own when you hear the noise of someone breaking into your home in the middle of the night. I don't think Americans are ready, or willing to give up the second amendment... and realistically I can't see it happening. However, we should get stricter when it comes to guns. The idea of people carrying guns around the streets, and out of their homes is unsettling. I feel that we should get modify "concealed-carry", and make it that guns stay in the home, or in the trunk of a car... not in a glove compartment or a pocket. Interesting that you bring up concealed carry. I used to live in Colorado Springs, CO before I moved out here. They have a very high rate of CCW permit holders-- 5000 in a county of 600000. NO ONE in that 5000 has ever committed a crime with a gun. In other words, a huge number of guns in that county have never harmed anyone. However, they can really help when help is needed most. When a church there had someone go crazy and start shooting parishoners, a CCW holder who apparently was volunteering for security opened up on the gunman. Only a couple of people died-- without the CCW holder, it could have been a LOT worse. I know several CCW holders there. One of them is a retired Army Ranger. I call him my "samurai" because that's how much honor means to him (and he has a black belt and can do some wild things with blades, etc) He carries his gun everywhere. He has reason to-- someone basically would rather see him dead for political reasons (let's say he uncovered some rather interesting material and tried to be a whistle blower) Would you rather see these people depend upon police protection only? I don't particularly like guns either, to be honest. But I see guns as being in the same category as first aid kits, emergency supplies, and the like-- stuff you hope you never have to use but where it really pays off to be prepared. I remember one friend of mine who had insomnia one night. Someone broke into her house and was going to burglarize it we suspect. Well she managed to get to her gun, and with trembling fingers, get off a shot. The cops didn't file any charges on her because she was defending her house. Actually, their attitude was "Well, you've made finding the suspect a whole lot easier, we'll just wait for someone to go to the hospital with a .22 round in his kneecap." Sure enough he did, and he was arrested and I think convicted. Score one criminal off the streets. He had a gun too, btw-- where would my friend have been had she not been able to have a gun? She doesn't like having a gun but sees it as a necessary evil.
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:20 pm
Ladygaura rockerpixie I sit on the fence when it comes to gun control. Personally, I hate guns. I hate them with a passion. Nothing positive can come from a gun... only death. However, I can't think of anything more comforting to own when you hear the noise of someone breaking into your home in the middle of the night. I don't think Americans are ready, or willing to give up the second amendment... and realistically I can't see it happening. However, we should get stricter when it comes to guns. The idea of people carrying guns around the streets, and out of their homes is unsettling. I feel that we should get modify "concealed-carry", and make it that guns stay in the home, or in the trunk of a car... not in a glove compartment or a pocket. Interesting that you bring up concealed carry. I used to live in Colorado Springs, CO before I moved out here. They have a very high rate of CCW permit holders-- 5000 in a county of 600000. NO ONE in that 5000 has ever committed a crime with a gun. In other words, a huge number of guns in that county have never harmed anyone. However, they can really help when help is needed most. When a church there had someone go crazy and start shooting parishoners, a CCW holder who apparently was volunteering for security opened up on the gunman. Only a couple of people died-- without the CCW holder, it could have been a LOT worse. I know several CCW holders there. One of them is a retired Army Ranger. I call him my "samurai" because that's how much honor means to him (and he has a black belt and can do some wild things with blades, etc) He carries his gun everywhere. He has reason to-- someone basically would rather see him dead for political reasons (let's say he uncovered some rather interesting material and tried to be a whistle blower) Would you rather see these people depend upon police protection only? I don't particularly like guns either, to be honest. But I see guns as being in the same category as first aid kits, emergency supplies, and the like-- stuff you hope you never have to use but where it really pays off to be prepared. I remember one friend of mine who had insomnia one night. Someone broke into her house and was going to burglarize it we suspect. Well she managed to get to her gun, and with trembling fingers, get off a shot. The cops didn't file any charges on her because she was defending her house. Actually, their attitude was "Well, you've made finding the suspect a whole lot easier, we'll just wait for someone to go to the hospital with a .22 round in his kneecap." Sure enough he did, and he was arrested and I think convicted. Score one criminal off the streets. He had a gun too, btw-- where would my friend have been had she not been able to have a gun? She doesn't like having a gun but sees it as a necessary evil. Wow, you're friend was very lucky. 3nodding See, I live in Los Angeles... in a neighborhood where gangs roam in the middle of the night... I've lost count of the number of gun shots I've heard in my life.
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:11 pm
rockerpixie Ladygaura rockerpixie I sit on the fence when it comes to gun control. Personally, I hate guns. I hate them with a passion. Nothing positive can come from a gun... only death. However, I can't think of anything more comforting to own when you hear the noise of someone breaking into your home in the middle of the night. I don't think Americans are ready, or willing to give up the second amendment... and realistically I can't see it happening. However, we should get stricter when it comes to guns. The idea of people carrying guns around the streets, and out of their homes is unsettling. I feel that we should get modify "concealed-carry", and make it that guns stay in the home, or in the trunk of a car... not in a glove compartment or a pocket. Interesting that you bring up concealed carry. I used to live in Colorado Springs, CO before I moved out here. They have a very high rate of CCW permit holders-- 5000 in a county of 600000. NO ONE in that 5000 has ever committed a crime with a gun. In other words, a huge number of guns in that county have never harmed anyone. However, they can really help when help is needed most. When a church there had someone go crazy and start shooting parishoners, a CCW holder who apparently was volunteering for security opened up on the gunman. Only a couple of people died-- without the CCW holder, it could have been a LOT worse. I know several CCW holders there. One of them is a retired Army Ranger. I call him my "samurai" because that's how much honor means to him (and he has a black belt and can do some wild things with blades, etc) He carries his gun everywhere. He has reason to-- someone basically would rather see him dead for political reasons (let's say he uncovered some rather interesting material and tried to be a whistle blower) Would you rather see these people depend upon police protection only? I don't particularly like guns either, to be honest. But I see guns as being in the same category as first aid kits, emergency supplies, and the like-- stuff you hope you never have to use but where it really pays off to be prepared. I remember one friend of mine who had insomnia one night. Someone broke into her house and was going to burglarize it we suspect. Well she managed to get to her gun, and with trembling fingers, get off a shot. The cops didn't file any charges on her because she was defending her house. Actually, their attitude was "Well, you've made finding the suspect a whole lot easier, we'll just wait for someone to go to the hospital with a .22 round in his kneecap." Sure enough he did, and he was arrested and I think convicted. Score one criminal off the streets. He had a gun too, btw-- where would my friend have been had she not been able to have a gun? She doesn't like having a gun but sees it as a necessary evil. Wow, you're friend was very lucky. 3nodding See, I live in Los Angeles... in a neighborhood where gangs roam in the middle of the night... I've lost count of the number of gun shots I've heard in my life. When I first moved to Colorado Springs, I moved to an apartment complex that was in, as I learned later, the "Shooting Alley". Not fun, but I do know what the Friday night song sounds like whizzing by not so far away. So I'm not unfamilar with your predicament. I think ALL of us in the gun debate would rather not see so many armed gangs. We agree, there. I personally think that if we find ways to make them poorer (for instance, legalizing marijuana would make that a far less lucrative crop and would deprive the black market of a source of income) they wouldn't have such power. I've actually heard of gangs dealing in illegal guns because they are lucrative-- and yes, if we legalized such weaponry the price would drop. In short, bans makes for a rich black market, so legalizing things moves these commodities to the legal market and makes it harder for them to operate.
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:45 pm
Ladygaura RedDragon, I find myself in deep agreement with you once again. Here in CA, police "may" come to the aid of people in peril. Believe it or not, that's may, not shall. They are so busy fighting easy crime and handing out speeding tickets that sometimes they don't come to a break-in or whatever if they don't think you're at immediate risk. Not your decision but theirs. And lets not forget fightning that all important drug war either. Ladygaura To heck with that, I say! I have not cared for my family just to have some gangster mow us down (oh yeah, and don't try calling about gang related stuff in my town on a Friday-Sunday-- they work only four days a week, and not when the gangs are working, apparently). I have my ways. And I thought the police force in my area was bad at providing service, I'm suprised that the your local force is able to get away with that. Ladygaura Another thing. Where gun control begins, knife and blade laws soon follow. this can even extend to ceremonial swords and knives, and in one pathetic case, letter openers-- Palm Springs CA once forbade those in public. Kansas forbids any dagger or double edged blade unless you are actively hunting. To heck with Pagan athames, I guess. That reminds me of Cathy Jamieson of Scotland and knife crime in that area. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/4788881.stmLadygaura Also, what about the collector who wants an AK-47 not because they ever want to use it, but they just admire its deadly beauty? I actually know someone like that. He owns dozens of guns, far more than he would ever actually need. For him, it's his passion and essentially he is a sollector. I've never been that intrested in collecting guns, now swords on the other hand that would be something I could see myself doing.But anyways it is important to take into consideration the aspects of guns that do not deal in offensive or defensive force. Ladygaura One last thing. I talked recently to someone from Kenesaw GA. They actually require gun ownership in that town. I asked him about the crime rate in that town out of genuine curiosity. He basically asked me "What crime?" apparently it's virtually nonexistent. Sounds somewhat like gun laws in Switzerland.
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:56 pm
REdDragon--
1. about the local police-- they're corrupt, of course. Corruption creates lazy cops.
2. I too would much prefer to collect blades, swords, and other fun sharp metal things. I own a pretty cool bolline blade, for example, that sees a great deal of useful service in my garden. It's curved edge allows me to hack away at a head of cabbage, for example, leavng the remainder intact and permitting me to grow mini-cabbages if I wish to do so. Some of the fantasy blades out there are true works of art and should be regarded only as such. I had a neighbor who collected those, and they really do look nice on display. However to each their own, and some people have the same level of fun collecting guns.
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:45 pm
Guns are fundamentally evil. They are useless for self defence, as they cannot stop you getting hurt. All they can do is hurt other people.
In South Africa, the (armed) police don't dare to put on their uniforms before reaching the station, because they know that they would be killed for their guns at once. That will give you some idea of the sort of protection guns offer.
I don't think anyone should have guns. I include in this bracket the government (if we must have a distinct government) and the police, as well as the people in general. Guns hurt people. There are more deaths in the US from accidents with guns than there are homicides.
It is often said that if guns were banned, it would only be law abiding people who were prevented from having guns. This view is based on the strange idea that the world is divided into 'do-gooders' who obey the law all the time and 'do-badders' who obey no laws whatsoever. This is patently nonsense. It would be much, much harder for criminals to get guns if they were illegal. It is just harder to do things which are illegal. If it isn't we need to rethink the justice system. (Incidentally, we really do need to rethink the justice system, but that's off topic.)
Having a weapon gives you a power over another that is beyond reason, beyond liberty and beyond democracy. No one has the right to take life on a whim, and that is essentially what gun ownership allows you to do.
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:55 pm
guns should be put under VERY strict regulations, but they shouldn't be totally abolished. Like someone here said, if someone breaks into your house, a gun can be very comforting
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:57 pm
but then again they could be abolished if tasers were used in place of the gun.
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:01 pm
Pick_A_Song but then again they could be abolished if tasers were used in place of the gun. people still die by tasers, though they would be better then having guns. Heres an example of police brutality and a taser death, All in one story! So some pig arrested this lady handcuffed her and she was in the back of the patrol car and she moved a little trying to adjust herself or something and the pig tasered here to death saying she was resisting arrest and all that bull.
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