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Join vegetarians and supporters for discussion on health, cooking, and ethical issues! 

Tags: Food, Vegan, Vegetarian, Animal, Cooking 

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Hlessirah

Dapper Vegetarian

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:06 pm


I thought I would try and bring up a topic that has been on my mind lately, and has been discussed amongst you a little already:
Vegan and Vegetarian hostilities.
There is so much hostility amongst communities such as ours, that make me feel rather uneasy. We tend to divide ourselves based on this small difference of vegetarianism as opposed to veganism. For example, one person will say that he/she is a vegetarian, and then others in the vegan sphere will tend to make angry or hostile comments to the effect of how heartless someone is to eat egg/milk/cheese. Meanwhile, the vegetarians tend to get defensive to the extreme and start to dislike the vegans.
Here is an abridged example from our forums, names omitted.

Quote:

A: I am just a vegetarian because I love cheese and milk to much to give it up.
B: so would you say you love cheese and milk more or less than you love raping and killing cows?
C: B, you are exactly one reason why so many people hate veg*ns. You're too damn hostile and preachy. It's someone's choice. Not yours.
B: When did torture, rape, and murder become merely personal choices?

Please do not take offense, those whom I quoted. This is just an example to prove my point.

I will step up and tell you where I stand. I am a vegetarian, not a vegan, since I eat small amounts of cheese, and cook with egg and milk when recipies call for it, and I treat myself to one of my greatest pleasures, imported chocolates, when I feel the need. I do not attempt to hide this fact. But before anyone tries to criticize me, they need to understand how much I have given up for the cause. I no longer eat meat of any kind, nor do I drink milk, or buy things with feathers, etc. Yet I often feel looked down upon by others such as vegans who do not think I take it far enough. And I agree, I don't. And yet what they do not know is that my health, weight, self-control, and caloric intake will not let me go further with it, at least for now.

All I am saying is that this small difference in ideology and/or self control tends to be a real problem in our communities, and both sides are at fault. The vegetarians need to learn to stop resenting the vegans and instead respect their total self-control and devotion and also realize that the vegans do have good points to make. Likewise, the vegans need to respect the many sacrifices that the vegetarians make and continually strive to make in a world that is not usually open to such change, and realize that any change, no matter how small, makes a difference.
Respect goes both ways, my comrades.

Being angry, defensive, and hostile does not suit us or our cause. We may have little differences, but in the end, we all need each other, and we need to be accepting. We are a "veg*n" guild for a reason. We are all banded together in one common cause, and we need to keep that in mind, and not allow those differences to drive us apart.



Please discuss.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:50 pm



Eating meat, dairy, eggs, or other animal products isn't ethical, but it's socially acceptable. On the other hand, murder, rape, theft, and violence aren't. I don't go around praising people for not murdering, raping, stealing, or engaging in violence. I'm not going to praise somebody either for making ethical lifestyle choices.

A vegan diet is healthier, less expensive, and relatively easy due to the large number of dairy and egg substitutes available. I really don't see a good reason to use animal products.

Self-control is another matter. Some people say they don't have enough self-control to stop themselves from killing, raping, or using violence, which is bullshit, to be frank. Eating dairy and eggs exploits and hurts animals, plain and simple.


loony x lovegood
Crew


Hlessirah

Dapper Vegetarian

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:17 pm


Yes, a vegan diet is indeed the ideal that we all should strive for, but it is sometimes just not possible for people. What about the people who live in areas where substitutes are not made available? Would you not agree that, until such substitutes become more widespread, any small changes that individuals can make would still do some good for the cause?

Sure, you may not go around praising people for "not murdering, raping, and engaging in violence", but in a world where such behavior is in fact encouraged...Well, in such a world, you might wish to praise people who have the courage to think for themselves and starting making steps towards a journey to becoming better human beings, wouldn't you? After all, we are all on a similar journey, it's just that the vegans are further along, that's all.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:52 pm



Maybe fake meats are hard to come by, but even if you don't have soy or rice or cashew or almond milk available, if you have soybeans, you can make your own. Eggs can be substituted with applesauce, flax seed, potato starch, etc. Even without substitutes, it doesn't justify consuming animal products. Lack of sex doesn't justify rape, lack of material possessions doesn't justify theft.

If an omnivore was going vegetarian, I would give them a lot more praise. The difference between omnivores and vegetarians is that omnivores are generally ignorant to the suffering and exploitation of animals, whereas vegetarians are usually aware of the effects upon foremost, animals, then the environment, your health, and even other people (one pound of meat takes anywhere from 8-12 pounds of grain to produce, which could be used to feed the millions of people worldwide starving.)

I'm glad people are making changes that help animals, but to be honest, once you know about the horrors of the meat, dairy, egg, fur, leather, wool, etc. industries, cutting out these things is really a no-brainer.

loony x lovegood
Crew


momomuki

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:54 am


As a vegan, of course I'd like for others to abstain from eggs and milk - especially from caged hens and factory cows. If the hens are *truly* free range and treated well, I don't really mind. Same with the milk.

But jeez, I am soooo glad there are so many ovo-lacto vegetarians out there who are not eating meat. Thanks to them there is that much less consumer demand for the unnecessarily cruel treatment of animals.

My husband is a lacto-vegetarian. He's also the reason I am a vegan. While we were dating, he opened my eyes to the reality of factory farming - over a plate of chicken enchiladas. My half-eaten enchiladas were my last meat-containing meal.

For the most part, we are all striving for the same thing - the ethical treatment of animals. I would much rather someone be an egg-and-dairy-eating vegetarian than a beef-and-chicken-eating omnivore. Yet, I still encourage anyone to go vegan.
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