help!christianity and witchcraft!

[lordstar]

svastika

according to some pagans and wiccans, they considered the miracle of Jesus as a act of witchcraft.. LOL

Ironic isn't it  

[divineseraph]

Let's follow from the words of the Old Testimate directly and kill them!

Huzzah Genocide!

But yeah, not sure htey can call themselves christians. Perhaps they believe in a spiritual magical world, but one made by YHWH, and his son/profit Jesus?  

[promised_child]

thestarthatshines

it's impossible to be a Christian and a witch. Also, witches and wiccans are the same thing. Witches are what we first called wiccans, though the actually connotation and even denotation has changed throughout history - but they're still the same. And 'Pagan' refers to anything not Christian - though you see it used most often to describe barbaric religions. And 'Magic' and "magick'? Wow, these people need to get their brain cells together. Because, A.) It's Magyk and b.) it's simply an older form of english.

unfortunately, aside form pointing out nit-picky flaws in their argument, I can't help you much. But I will pray for you and them. good luck!

sorry to tell you this, but they arent all the same. yes all wiccans are witches, but not all witches are wiccans. witches (that arent wiccans) tend to be more selfish, and if you get hurt, so be it.wiccans have a rule that they must follow to be wiccans "do what you will as long as it harms no person" break that rule and you go from being wiccan to witch.  

[promised_child]

PoppyDadswell

trinity343

lordstar

PoppyDadswell

there are people in the extended religious forum claiming that they are christian witches!i explained that a christian cannot be a witch and a christian both,but they are now furious with and every quote from the bible i give is 'not relevent','outdated' because of the OT and so-on.
there are also 'satanists' claiming that they are different to 'wiccans','pagans' and 'witches' and as far as i am concerned they are all pagan no matter what name they call themselves. some are even argueing about the difference between 'magic' and 'magick'!i feel christianity is being slurred and i would really appreciate if one or two people explained the truth on this thread to clear up the idea of christian witches.

I'm sorry to be the one to point this out to you but their claims are very valid.

and on which parts of what she said are you saying are valid?



in the OT God has given direction not to mess with magic b/c it is against who he is b/c it is the attempt..and sometimes the success...of trying to receive some sort of power from something other the God....such as satan, nature, one's 'inner-self.' anything that takes one's focus from God and the power that he gives us through the Holy Spirit is sin. and the power that the Holy Spirit gives to us is not the same as what magic is trying to do. it is a power to be bold strong and courageous when the odds are against you, it is the power to stand up for what's right and just when nobody else will. it is the power to persevere in spite of persecution. it is also the power to change the hearts of those who God calls to him [which is everyone...and yet specific ppl all at the same time].

now i can see their calling the differences between types of magics and cults and such as being valid b/c yes they are all different in what they believe. however they are still what can be considered pagan/heathen religions/belief systems as a whole....but one must be careful not to place them in to the whole when we are dealing with them individually b/c they are each affected by their differences.

for poppy: if they are calling the OT outdated then use something from the NT...then they can't claim that..here are a few possibilities

Galatians 5:19-21

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, and envy, drunkenness, orgies, and the like. i warn you, as i did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God

also Acts 8:9-24 and Acts 19:13-19

now to say that the OT is invalid isn't true. it is still just as valid today as it was then. those who do not believe in Christ are still judged by the law that was given so long ago. as well as are those who do believe in Christ...the only difference is follows of Christ are forgiven fully for what disobedience we do. but that doesn't give us an excuse to go out and do whatever we please. under the new covenant the laws of the old become guidelines, heavily weighted mind you. they are there to let us see where we sin, to let us know what separates us from God. for if it weren't for the law we wouldn't be able to recognize our sin...even though we would still be in it. Just as Jesus said, he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it...meaning to live it perfectly so that we don't have to b/c God knows that we can't. so yes we are no longer bound to the OT laws b/c we no longer have the consequences of breaking the law, which is spiritual death, but we are still under the law meaning we are still expected to live holy and pure lives, which can only be lived if one knows what it looks like. one can only know what it looks like by looking at the laws.

i gave countless quotes from the Ot and NT,but they just pick holes in them and have a go with me about my learning difficulties. crying

well, thats just plain heartless of them... the learning dificulties thing.. stay stron girl.  

[PhaseBurn]

PoppyDadswell

there are also 'satanists' claiming that they are different to 'wiccans','pagans' and 'witches' and as far as i am concerned they are all pagan no matter what name they call themselves.

Not all satanists are wiccans or witches. Additionally, "pagan" doesn't have the same meaning that you attribute it to. Read up on the definition of it. Not all satanists are pagan, either. That would be like saying all water is salty. If you look on a global scale, *most* water is salty, being part of an ocean or sea, but not all of it. Likewise, *most* satanists are pagan, but not all of them. Nor are they all wiccans or witches or practice magic(k).  

[lordstar]

PhaseBurn

PoppyDadswell

there are also 'satanists' claiming that they are different to 'wiccans','pagans' and 'witches' and as far as i am concerned they are all pagan no matter what name they call themselves.

Not all satanists are wiccans or witches. Additionally, "pagan" doesn't have the same meaning that you attribute it to. Read up on the definition of it. Not all satanists are pagan, either. That would be like saying all water is salty. If you look on a global scale, *most* water is salty, being part of an ocean or sea, but not all of it. Likewise, *most* satanists are pagan, but not all of them. Nor are they all wiccans or witches or practice magic(k).

Fun fact of the day:

Pure H2O boils at room temp.

0.0  

[promised_child]

yeesh poppy, much as i enjoy a good debate, you got this one in 2 guilds!!

way to go!
i just wish we could unite on something here, how bout:
you cant be a witch/wiccan/pagan/satanist etc and a christian.  

[lordstar]

promised_child

yeesh poppy, much as i enjoy a good debate, you got this one in 2 guilds!!

way to go!
i just wish we could unite on something here, how bout:
you cant be a witch/wiccan/pagan/satanist etc and a christian.

how about

you can be you
and that is just fine  

[promised_child]

lordstar

promised_child

yeesh poppy, much as i enjoy a good debate, you got this one in 2 guilds!!

way to go!
i just wish we could unite on something here, how bout:
you cant be a witch/wiccan/pagan/satanist etc and a christian.

how about

you can be you
and that is just fine

i love when people are themselves, if you want my own story, lordstar, pm me. you will see where i come from  

[Shyrofox]

Ironically enough, this argument exists on the other side of the pendulum as well. Wiccans/Pagans/Witches, what have you, usually argue to the 'Christian Wiccans' that there is no such thing. But more or less the people who are Christian Wiccans have more of an open mind than most here--and most over there too.

What happened to 'love thy neighbor'?

You spend so much time bashing or fighting or trying to reform each other that you lose that love for another type of human being. It's very sad that such a wall exists here. sad  

[promised_child]

Shyrofox

Ironically enough, this argument exists on the other side of the pendulum as well. Wiccans/Pagans/Witches, what have you, usually argue to the 'Christian Wiccans' that there is no such thing. But more or less the people who are Christian Wiccans have more of an open mind than most here--and most over there too.

What happened to 'love thy neighbor'?

You spend so much time bashing or fighting or trying to reform each other that you lose that love for another type of human being. It's very sad that such a wall exists here. sad

I bash no one. you simply cant serve 2 masters, trust me i tried and almost died (by my own hand, i must add) cuz of it. dont assume that our minds are closed on the issue- we just have our own beliefs. i was a witch and a wiccan and a "pagan" so i know you cant serve both Christ and ares(my former), you also cant serve Christ and the goddesses of witchcraft/wiccanism. it will eventually tear you apart until you are forced to choose. and the Bible says to have no other gods before God, that also means not making him share his space...  

[leamhan]

PoppyDadswell

there are people in the extended religious forum claiming that they are christian witches!i explained that a christian cannot be a witch and a christian both,but they are now furious with and every quote from the bible i give is 'not relevent','outdated' because of the OT and so-on.

I agree, a witch cannot be a Christian, nor a Christian a witch. The Bible does not suddenly turn around and state that witchcraft is okay under the new covenant, so the words of the Old Testament are perfectly valid. The references in the New Testament are as follows:

Acts 8:9-22 the story of Simon the magician. He had been a magician, believed after seeing miracles, as did the people he had amazed with his magic. He then tried to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit so that he too could do these wonders, and was condemned. This does not speak directly of magic being evil, but more of the folly of trying to impress others with gifts.

Acts 13:6ff is speaking of a magician who taught against Christ, and who was punished with blindness. Unclear whether this is because of his magic or because he was against the faith.

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood.

Please note that the word translated 'sorcerers' is pharmakeus from which we get our words "pharmacy" and "pharmacist", in other words, a purveyor of drugs, magical remedies and so on.

In the Old Testament:

Leviticus 19:26 "You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not practice augury or witchcraft.


Leviticus 20:6 "If a person turns to mediums and wizards, playing the harlot after them, I will set my face against that person, and will cut him off from among his people.

Exodus 22:18 "You shall not permit a sorceress to live."




Witchcraft = Nachash = To hiss or whisper enchantments (Strongs)
Wizards = yiddeoniy (probably spelt wrong): a knower, a false prophet
Sorceress = Kashaph = To practise witchcraft (Strongs)

No one really takes seriously the claim that the OT is not against witchcraft. Full listing of scriptures:

Leviticus 19:26; Isaiah 44:25; Acts 8:9, 18-22; Acts 13:6; Deuteronomy 18:10-14; 2 Kings 21:6; Leviticus 19:31; Leviticus 20:6; Leviticus 20:27; Isaiah 8:19; 1 Samuel 28; Exodus 22:18; Isaiah 47:12-14; Revelation 21:8; Revelation 22:15

Quote:

there are also 'satanists' claiming that they are different to 'wiccans','pagans' and 'witches' and as far as i am concerned they are all pagan no matter what name they call themselves.

Satanists are different to pagans and wiccans, although I believe there are Satanic witches. While we as Christians would identify Satan as the ultimate source of any religion, they do not worship Satan per se. There are Satanists of the theistic or atheistic variety, but don't confuse them with Wiccans/pagans.  

[PoppyDadswell]

PhaseBurn

PoppyDadswell

there are also 'satanists' claiming that they are different to 'wiccans','pagans' and 'witches' and as far as i am concerned they are all pagan no matter what name they call themselves.

Not all satanists are wiccans or witches. Additionally, "pagan" doesn't have the same meaning that you attribute it to. Read up on the definition of it. Not all satanists are pagan, either. That would be like saying all water is salty. If you look on a global scale, *most* water is salty, being part of an ocean or sea, but not all of it. Likewise, *most* satanists are pagan, but not all of them. Nor are they all wiccans or witches or practice magic(k).

christians,muslims and jewish call those of other beliefs pagans.its merely an umberella term,just the way baptists,catholics,russian orthodox and amish can all be called christian,beside a few differences.  

[promised_child]

PoppyDadswell

PhaseBurn

PoppyDadswell

there are also 'satanists' claiming that they are different to 'wiccans','pagans' and 'witches' and as far as i am concerned they are all pagan no matter what name they call themselves.

Not all satanists are wiccans or witches. Additionally, "pagan" doesn't have the same meaning that you attribute it to. Read up on the definition of it. Not all satanists are pagan, either. That would be like saying all water is salty. If you look on a global scale, *most* water is salty, being part of an ocean or sea, but not all of it. Likewise, *most* satanists are pagan, but not all of them. Nor are they all wiccans or witches or practice magic(k).

christians,muslims and jewish call those of other beliefs pagans.its merely an umberella term,just the way baptists,catholics,russian orthodox and amish can all be called christian,beside a few differences.

true that, girl, true that. i like your new avi by the way. very cute- i am a little weary of argueing so ill hold my tongue on the whole topic tonight.  

[Sarcastic_Angel]

Personally, I don't believe Christians can be witches, or vice versa. and I know for a fact that there are verses in the bible saying so, I just don't know where and am currently too lazy to go look them up.
Unfortunately, I don't know what the rules are for witches or wiccans or pagaen withches or whatever.... I could explain Islam and Judaism to a satisfactory point, but I can't help you with the rest.