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who or what created the universe
  god
  big bang
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cmcconnell95

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:45 pm


scientists say that ince we cannot physically sense god that he does not excist.well by those same scientifical laws there brains dont excist.they say that since we cannot smell see hear taste or feel god in a physical way he does not excist.now ask yourself can you hear your brain,can you feel your brain,can you smell see or taste your brain.i'm gonna guess no.this means that by the laws science uses to debate the excistence of god it also means they have no brain.also,the big bang theory.scientists say that particuls combusted and thus the univers was made....where did the particuls come from?they had to come from somewhere or science is just basing there beliefe in faith which they state is what we base on god excisting.can you say hypocrite
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:32 pm


um, well we know the brain exists because even tho we ourselves cannot readily know it with any of our 5 senses, brains have been operated on, experimented on. it *is* tangible. it *is* provable. god is neither.

the big bang theory isnt truly provable either (which is why it's yet a theory) but honestly, even tho I dont believe in such a god due to lack of evidence, there is plenty of evidence pointing to said theory, but nevertheless, I dont see evolution and the concept of god as being mutually exclusive.

Calypsophia


cmcconnell95

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:41 am


but heres the thing,you trust that other people have seen brains,how dod you know they arnt lying.my argument is not the excistence of brains but how do you know you have one if you cant sense it yourself,for instence i could tell you i live in california but i dont,so if i told you that you have nothing to say i'm lying and if you chose to believe me you have to base that choice on faith,just like when a doctor says you have a brain but you've never seen it or heard it so you have to have faith that he's not lying.the same princeple stands for god,you just gotta have faith.as for the big bang theroy,underline theroy,they dont have enough evedince to say they are sure because they dont know where the eledged molecules or stars or any part of the theroy came from so it's based on faith.take stars for example,where do they come from,we know how there made after one explodes the particles recomprese and a new star is born,well where did the first star come from?scientistists dont have answers for that either,so heres two answers they can give you.we dont know,exactly you dont know enough about what is here and seeable so how can we trust what you say about the beginning is true when you werent even alive during that time.second answer,the stars have always been there,no because that is the same answer they use for god,he's always been there.so how can you trust an answer for one thing but the same answer wont work for the other when the questions are the same.it's like saying 2+3=5 but 3+2 doesnt equal five.also you havent gone near the first point of the thread,evolution.do you not go there because you have no answer.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:01 am


cmcconnell95
but heres the thing,you trust that other people have seen brains,how dod you know they arnt lying.my argument is not the excistence of brains but how do you know you have one if you cant sense it yourself,for instence i could tell you i live in california but i dont,so if i told you that you have nothing to say i'm lying and if you chose to believe me you have to base that choice on faith,just like when a doctor says you have a brain but you've never seen it or heard it so you have to have faith that he's not lying.the same princeple stands for god,you just gotta have faith.as for the big bang theroy,underline theroy,they dont have enough evedince to say they are sure because they dont know where the eledged molecules or stars or any part of the theroy came from so it's based on faith.take stars for example,where do they come from,we know how there made after one explodes the particles recomprese and a new star is born,well where did the first star come from?scientistists dont have answers for that either,so heres two answers they can give you.we dont know,exactly you dont know enough about what is here and seeable so how can we trust what you say about the beginning is true when you werent even alive during that time.second answer,the stars have always been there,no because that is the same answer they use for god,he's always been there.so how can you trust an answer for one thing but the same answer wont work for the other when the questions are the same.it's like saying 2+3=5 but 3+2 doesnt equal five.also you havent gone near the first point of the thread,evolution.do you not go there because you have no answer.


I've seen the brain. I've seen operations on the brain. can't say the same for god. seeing is believing, or so they say. what is your basis in believing in god? you cant see it, you cant touch it, you might think you feel it, but you associate that feeling with a belief that's already there, and you could be wrong. but no, THAT idea is out of the question, isnt it? *scoff* you continually tell me I have no answers to things in posts. you're so full of your own conclusions you have no room for anything else. I can only smile and shake my head at your answers. you say god has always been there... PROVE IT. and dont use the bible. the bible proves nothing. dont use the beauty in the world, it proves nothing. dont use the fact that we have 'superior brains' or 'thumbs' because that also proves NOTHING. dont use the 'watchmaker' theory (if you even know what that is) because that's based on human assumption. you dont really know anymore than anyone else does. your problem is you dont have the humility to see that.

true wisdom is knowing that you dont know. (a line attributed to Socrates).

Calypsophia


cmcconnell95

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:41 am


prove it.well let's see you prove the big bang theroy,let's see you prove every scientifical theroy that conradticts religion,you cant can you.i dont say i can prove god's exsistence i say i believe in god and that science's theroys have a lot of gaps in them.yes there is room for many other possibilities but i believe what i believe,you have a problem with,to bad cause i'm in america and i have free will.and so what if you've seen other peoples brains,have you seen your's,i'm gonna guess no so you really dont have concreate evedence that you have a brain.you said seeing is believing,have you seen your brain,have you seen evolution take place?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:56 pm


cmcconnell95
prove it.well let's see you prove the big bang theroy,let's see you prove every scientifical theroy that conradticts religion,you cant can you.i dont say i can prove god's exsistence i say i believe in god and that science's theroys have a lot of gaps in them.yes there is room for many other possibilities but i believe what i believe,you have a problem with,to bad cause i'm in america and i have free will.and so what if you've seen other peoples brains,have you seen your's,i'm gonna guess no so you really dont have concreate evedence that you have a brain.you said seeing is believing,have you seen your brain,have you seen evolution take place?


I dont have to prove the big bang theory, because I never asserted that it was correct. I have no problems with what you believe. it's your life, your feelings, and they dont effect me. if anything, I have issues with your aggression and judgmental attitude, calling people hypocrites, telling me I have no argument, that I contradict myself (when I dont truly think you understand or are even listening to the things I say). it makes you sound as tho you see yourself as high and mighty. I said "they say seeing is believing" as in, it's a common expression. you really have no idea what I believe and I truly dont think you give a damn what I believe. if I thought you were interested, I'd have laid my beliefs out for you already.

do you know what 'mutually exclusive' means? because regardless what my beliefs are it's what I said about evolution and belief in god.

Calypsophia


idiotic randomness

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:50 am


cmcconnell95
prove it.well let's see you prove the big bang theroy,let's see you prove every scientifical theroy that conradticts religion,you cant can you.i dont say i can prove god's exsistence i say i believe in god and that science's theroys have a lot of gaps in them.yes there is room for many other possibilities but i believe what i believe,you have a problem with,to bad cause i'm in america and i have free will.and so what if you've seen other peoples brains,have you seen your's,i'm gonna guess no so you really dont have concreate evedence that you have a brain.you said seeing is believing,have you seen your brain,have you seen evolution take place?

so your saying that certian people have brains and some dont? have you actualy seen the earth from space to know if its flat in your world? and where did such a diety come from, he couldnt have always been their, and for your statement that science has wholes in it, religion has as many if not more holes in it then science. in addition you have not really provided anything as a actual argument for evoulution except that you think you have no brain
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:00 pm


well i think i have a brain but i cant tell for sure that i have a brain since i've never seen it.anyways i realize i'm not going to convince you sll and your not going to convince me to belive otherwise so i'm just gonna leave this topic up for debate but to be honost there is no evedence that proves either of our theroys right or wrong so there really wont be a winner.

cmcconnell95


idiotic randomness

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:41 am


actualy for the big bang theory scientists have found evidense that the universe is spiraling away though it is slowing down and possibly go back to the center by the imense gravity of the center star.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:50 pm


still they have no solid evedince that the big bang ever occured,much less created the galaxy.anyways i'm not going to post much more mainly because i'm bussy in a rp guild,it's called the red dragon syndicate.it's a pretty cool place to rp,i suggest looking into it.since it's a private thread we dodnt have many people on there and even fewer on weekends.

cmcconnell95


Cornelius loh Quatious

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:00 pm


The only reason people say that scientific theories aren't "proven" is because they don't fully understand them. I could probably spend the next few hours going over how we know evolution happened and continues to happen to this day, or why we think the Big Bang theory is plausible due to the expansion of the universe, but judging from your speech patterns and composure, I doubt you would understand any of in until I explain the more fundamental principles lying beneath those, and the basics of those fundamentals. Flat out, I don't have the time to do that right now.

I can critique religion because I've studied it an learned about its basics and fundamentals. Can you do the same courtesy for science before trying to say something?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:08 pm


Can you prove that God exists?No

Can you prove that evolution is real? No

Can you prove the Big Bang is real? No

I think by brain he actually means the conscience, soul, thought, you know.

Can you see that? No

Can you see love? No

Can you see any idea(love, faith, grief)? No

But we believe it's all real. We know that ideas are real(ideas are nouns!) So seeing isn't believing. Our world is based off of series of assumptions and miscommunication. Personally I like to think God is real, because I want to have someone watching over me. Know that there is someone else in charge. Not just some random explosion of matter(that came out of practically nowhere) that randomly linked together to randomly become better, faster, smarter, until they were randomly human beings. I like the God theory better.

keiichiman


cmcconnell95

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:48 pm


keiichiman
Can you prove that God exists?No

Can you prove that evolution is real? No

Can you prove the Big Bang is real? No

I think by brain he actually means the conscience, soul, thought, you know.

Can you see that? No

Can you see love? No

Can you see any idea(love, faith, grief)? No

But we believe it's all real. We know that ideas are real(ideas are nouns!) So seeing isn't believing. Our world is based off of series of assumptions and miscommunication. Personally I like to think God is real, because I want to have someone watching over me. Know that there is someone else in charge. Not just some random explosion of matter(that came out of practically nowhere) that randomly linked together to randomly become better, faster, smarter, until they were randomly human beings. I like the God theory better.
i think you have a very good view on this,we cant definently prove either theroy so we can only say what we belive is right based on faith,some people think they can prove the sciencentific theroy but when you get down to the roots of it all those theroys(evolution,big bang)there is no hardcore evedance,we didnt see the big bang happen,we didnt whatch ourselves evolve,but we also didnt see god do any of theses things either.the fact is tthat there's not enough proof to trump either theroy.besides like i said nobodies gonna win this argument,only argue it until they get bored,give up,cant go no more,or just realize the previouse.(no one's gonna win)it's like playing chess with only kings,it's stalemate,no one can win.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:37 pm


CM, you're missing the point. What are you even defining "proof" as? I think you have some misconceptions on what exactly a "theory" is.

Theories, in the scientific sense of the word, are heavily supported by experimental evidence, which are done with the utmost care and are published under intense scrutiny by others in the field. Yes, we take them on faith that the results happened, much like we take on faith that I'm not a 400 ft tall, purple, fire-breathing, green-haired dragon from outer space. It's a thing we use called "reasoning" and his close relative, "logic."

Inductive reasoning allows us to infer things about our environment even though we may not have direct input on the subject. We've dissected humans before, and they've all had brains. Since we are also human, we can then say that we all have brains as well. Also, if you ask certain soldiers, butchers, or serial murderers, they can tell you that brains don't suddenly pop into existence when a person dies either, but that they are present in living humans as well, although the humans don't stay alive for very long.

We know all things evolve over time because we've seen it happen and continue to see it happen. In fact, it is the basis of our entire system of agriculture. Therefore, we can assume that all things have evolved, since it is a process and things are just as alive now as they were back then (in the general sense of the term, obviously nothing from millions of years ago is still alive now).

The trouble with pinning down the existence of a god is that nobody knows what one is, or what it looks like, or how it affects this world. No assumptions can be made because people can't even agree what a god is. There are hundreds, if not thousands, if not MILLIONS of different religions all over the world, each with their own distinctive beliefs and deities. How can we say which is true and which isn't? How can we say if any of them are true at all?

Short answer is that we can't, we can only say what's real or not based on the empirical evidence we have today. We know that a global flood has never occurred on this planet due to geological evidence, and we have no empirical proof that a man named Jesus Christ (or any of his other names) ever existed, merely stories told about him. An we know that the Earth wasn't created in six literal days because of the decay rates of radioactive isotopes both on this planet and on stars.

On the other hand, like you said, it's all a matter of faith. Why, to be perfectly honest, I don't even exist. And you're not reading this on your computer screen. In fact, you're just a brain in a jar, being fed images and sounds and other sensations directly into your gray matter so that aliens can experiment with the human psyche. The reason I'm telling you this is because I know you won't believe me, cementing yourself into the scenario that you think you're experiencing, and thereby locking in the reality-control mechanism that the aliens have placed you in.

Do you have any proof against this?

Cornelius loh Quatious


cmcconnell95

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:25 pm


last paragraph totally threw me off lol

true reasoning and logic
true there's plenty of religion's out there
but what i'm asking you is do you know as in sensed it your self that you came from a monkey(using primitave term here,dont start).let share something with you i saw on an educational channel and an educational program.when i was about seven i herd we came from monkey's,i wasnt religiouse then so i saw nothing wrong with that,later on i renounced that theroy.then i hear we originally come from some sorta fish thing with a long multi-syllabic word.which is it,reptile or mamal.anyways you used the words we assume,defenition of assume,in shotrt terms guess,base of of logical reasoning.also words you used however back in the 1600-1700's they thought the world was flat(time period may be off but they did think that)based on reasoning that since the ground was roughly flat the world was flat.last time i looked in a textbook the world was round.there is a perfically good example of how reasoning and logic were completely wrong.a long time ago people used to think the earth was the center of the solar system,last time i looked into a text book we weren't in the middle,the sun was.again logic and reasoning were wrong.do you have proof that the big bang happened.real hard proof that you can sense?i have no proof i'm not some gray mass looking at bunch of images on an alien space ship so i'm just gonna believe i'm not.or in other words have faith that i'm not.tell me where in a science book will you see the word faith,i have yet to see that word in said catogoy of books.what do you see in stead,believe,that's what you see.example
"scientists believe that a commet hit the earth and whiped out the dinosaurs"that's what you'll most likley see.
"scientists have faith that a commet hit the earth and whiped out the dinosaurs"thats what you just plain wont see.
science basses a lot on faith but when we say we have faith that there is god,we cant be right.it's like saying 2+3=5 but 3+2 doesnt epuall five(if i've brought this up before sorry but it makes sense)science doesnt want to accept that there's god because they cant explain god and therefore there is no way to be proclaimed smart or get money because you cant explain it.science as we know it however has a billion ways for scientists to get there name in papers.they just dont wanne accept that there is something that played a major role in there excistence that they cant explain.
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