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| Have you read them? |
| Yes. |
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50% |
[ 7 ] |
| No,I don't like to READ. I'm waiting for the movie. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Nope. |
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35% |
[ 5 ] |
| Never heard of it. |
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14% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:02 am
Because I stand in an interesting political and religious position compares to some others in my political group... and religious group for that matter... I get a VERY broad spectrum of spam in my email "warning"me about things. I get environmental messages and messages urging me to save Christmas. I get messages from PETA and messages from the Christian Coalition. I usually roll my eyes equally and choose on my OWN what battles to fight. But I was wondering what this group thought about the hulabaloo over the movie/book series The Golden Compass (His Dark Materials series) by Philip Pullman.
The mild claim is that they are anti-religion, and sort of the "opposite of Narnia".
Of course the wild claims are that if children read them they will have their testimonies of God ripped from them and lose all Religion by reading them whee
Now OBVIOUSLY, I am not the type to freak out over them. I adore Harry Potter and, no, I never did think they turned kids to evil like so many parents seemed to claim. But I ALSO love Narnia and they BEST not be trashing my CS Lewis... Polar Bear vs. Lion, oh that Bear will GO DOWN!
BUT for those that HAVE read them, are they really "anti-religion?"
Do you feel that they have a MESSAGE of anti-religion, or is there just no religion IN it (because, goodness, plenty of books don't mention religion and they are not going around emailing everyone about the impending threat on Christianity the movie will take rolleyes )?
Are they worth reading?
To whom do you recommend the series?
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:26 am
Huh. Now you've got me curious. I have heard of the series, but not read it. Mostly read nonfiction nowadays.
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:47 pm
I have read them, and infact, have the whole trilogy in a box set. However, upon reading them... well... The writing is astounding! It's a masterpiece of work and writing except for one itsy bitsy HUGE!!! detail. The book is a "pro-athiest" book. And I do not say that loosely and in fact, in the 3rd and final book the two kids actually KILL God. Yes, they actually kill God. Of course it's fake but... I don't recommend reading them if your a devote christian. I didn't know what I was getting into when I read them, but I do know and I warn you to be cautious.
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:51 pm
Kipluck Because I stand in an interesting political and religious position compares to some others in my political group... and religious group for that matter... I get a VERY broad spectrum of spam in my email "warning"me about things. I get environmental messages and messages urging me to save Christmas. I get messages from PETA and messages from the Christian Coalition. I usually roll my eyes equally and choose on my OWN what battles to fight. But I was wondering what this group thought about the hulabaloo over the movie/book series The Golden Compass (His Dark Materials series) by Philip Pullman. The mild claim is that they are anti-religion, and sort of the "opposite of Narnia". Of course the wild claims are that if children read them they will have their testimonies of God ripped from them and lose all Religion by reading them whee Now OBVIOUSLY, I am not the type to freak out over them. I adore Harry Potter and, no, I never did think they turned kids to evil like so many parents seemed to claim. But I ALSO love Narnia and they BEST not be trashing my CS Lewis... Polar Bear vs. Lion, oh that Bear will GO DOWN! BUT for those that HAVE read them, are they really "anti-religion?" Do you feel that they have a MESSAGE of anti-religion, or is there just no religion IN it (because, goodness, plenty of books don't mention religion and they are not going around emailing everyone about the impending threat on Christianity the movie will take rolleyes )? Are they worth reading? To whom do you recommend the series? Yes, they do have a message about anti-religion. Infact, the trilogy is about ending religion, and not only that, but that Author stated in an interview that those books were meant to show how he opposed religion and God. From a Christian perspective, I don't recommend reading them, but if you know that it's fake and not real at all and will not be swayed in your beleifs, than I say go ahead... Kinda... From a non-christian I say read them, they were terrific except when it mentions all about the way God is evil and what not. So... yeah. Hope that helped biggrin If you have any more questions, just PM me biggrin
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:35 pm
I read them in grade five. They're absotively fabulous! And they don't seem to be anti-religion at all, they just present different views on life... and death. Reading them certainly made me think, but I think it's somewhat silly to condemn them like you claim some people are doing.
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:55 pm
Crazy Bananna I read them in grade five. They're absotively fabulous! And they don't seem to be anti-religion at all, they just present different views on life... and death. Reading them certainly made me think, but I think it's somewhat silly to condemn them like you claim some people are doing. they are trying to kill God and they do... how anti-religion is that? plus a buch of other stuff....
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:07 pm
soupygirl Crazy Bananna I read them in grade five. They're absotively fabulous! And they don't seem to be anti-religion at all, they just present different views on life... and death. Reading them certainly made me think, but I think it's somewhat silly to condemn them like you claim some people are doing. they are trying to kill God and they do... how anti-religion is that? plus a buch of other stuff.... What is the "bunch of other stuff"? The thing I don't understand is if these stories are against religion in general, why are Christians the only ones upset about it?
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:27 am
Kraggus Doomhammer soupygirl Crazy Bananna I read them in grade five. They're absotively fabulous! And they don't seem to be anti-religion at all, they just present different views on life... and death. Reading them certainly made me think, but I think it's somewhat silly to condemn them like you claim some people are doing. they are trying to kill God and they do... how anti-religion is that? plus a buch of other stuff.... What is the "bunch of other stuff"? The thing I don't understand is if these stories are against religion in general, why are Christians the only ones upset about it? Because Pullman is directing everything he says and does at Christians. look it up: http://www.pluggedinonline.com/thisweekonly/a0003516.cfmhttp://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58987the other stuff is explained in these two websites and a lot more sites too. the plugged in site is the most reliable.
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:12 pm
soupygirl Kraggus Doomhammer soupygirl Crazy Bananna I read them in grade five. They're absotively fabulous! And they don't seem to be anti-religion at all, they just present different views on life... and death. Reading them certainly made me think, but I think it's somewhat silly to condemn them like you claim some people are doing. they are trying to kill God and they do... how anti-religion is that? plus a buch of other stuff.... What is the "bunch of other stuff"? The thing I don't understand is if these stories are against religion in general, why are Christians the only ones upset about it? Because Pullman is directing everything he says and does at Christians. look it up: http://www.pluggedinonline.com/thisweekonly/a0003516.cfmhttp://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58987the other stuff is explained in these two websites and a lot more sites too. the plugged in site is the most reliable. Everything bad about Christianity he said is a direct quote. It isn't from his stories. The only thing either site states that seems any bit anti-Christian is the idea of killing God and it isn't bad once you realize the context. "There is a character who masquerades as God, known as the Authority. But we discover he was simply the first being to evolve" That quote was taken from the plugged article.
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:33 am
Hmm, I think those two sites have just made me really want to read these books now. The second linked site There [is]no shortage of parallels between "His Dark Materials" and C.S. Lewis' "Chronicles of Narnia" series. Lyra instead of Lucy. A wardrobe. Alternate worlds. Talking animals. Cosmic consequences linked to a final battle. Oh, and witches – this time on the side of so-called good rather than evil. Then these people are obviously not fans of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, or even the Holy Bible - let us not forget Jesus performed magic. Honestly though, who cares if magic is on the side of good or bad? If you're unable to find the meaning of the movie, then you aren't mature enough to see it. It's the same thing that happens in Harry Potter, some Christians seem to get all up in arms because it has people using magic. Honestly, magic is not that important to the story, so they're getting upset over something that doesn't have anything to do with the morals it is trying to teach or show. That same site As to whether or not a real Creator is responsible for everything, however, another character says simply, "There may have been a creator, or there may not: We don't know." Last time I checked, Christians do not claim to know that God exists; and if they claim so, they are acting wrongly. All a person can ever claim about the existence of their Creator is to simply say 'I believe' anything other than that is not the same. To say that you know that your Creator exists means that you can objectively prove the existence of an being that is built off of an unfalsifiable idea. That is to say that God's existence cannot be proven one way or the other; this is due to the nature of how God is defined. So, in essence, all the character is stating is that they do not know if a Creator exists, this has absolutely no bearing on their belief on the matter. Belief and knowledge are two completely different terms. Belief is the holding of an idea in the absence of proof. Knowledge is the holding of an idea that has been proven to be true. Still the same site as above "The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, that's all," says an influential character named Mary Malone, who then goes on to relate her own "testimony" of why she abandoned her calling as a nun. I cannot comment much on this one seeing as I don't know the context it's in since I have yet to read the book. Quote: Other messages woven into this story exalt witchcraft, evolution, divination, homosexuality and premarital sex. Accompanying them are smoking, drinking, occasional mild profanity and moments of visceral violence. This one is gonna be fun. Let's see, the Bible does condemn divination and premarital sex as well as sodomy - which is not the same thing as homosexuality. Other than that, the Bible treats witchcraft a little differently; it really all depends on where the 'powers' are coming from and who you are. Pretty much, unless you're very special (read as a prophet/messiah), you really don't get to use them since they are from the devil. As far as the rest go, I see no passage in the Bible stating that evolution is wrong; it is a fact of science, just as gravity is, and the laws of thermodynamics. If you're taking the Bible at a literal interpretation, realize that pi now means 3, and locusts have 4 legs - unfortunately, the Greeks have shown that pi is an irrational number; and biology shows locusts have 6 legs. There are no references to homosexuality in the Bible. The only references there are come from poorly translated Greek/Hebrew. The references come from the poorly translated idea of pederasty, which is the sexual relation of a man with a boy; which at those times was generally a form of payment for being an apprentice, if I recall that latter portion right. Smoking, drinking, mild profanity, are not condemned as far as I've ever seen. The action of smoking is no more harmful to your spiritual self than is reading a test prep book. Further, there is a link between smoking and a reduced chance of getting Parkinson's disease. Drinking is most definitely not condemned either, does anyone remember the little account of Jesus turning water into wine? Further, drinking in moderation is also good for your health, e.g. a glass of red wine a day is good for your heart. Mild profanity if anything is only indicative of the size of your vocabulary. Honestly, if you are not adult enough to realize that they are simply words that are at times less sophisticated than others to describe something. Finally, there is visceral violence in the Bible, does this mean it is now bad? Second site [In the end] …"God" gets overthrown and the "fall" becomes the source of humankind's redemption, not failure. Once again, I cannot say anything about this out of my not having read the books so I do not know the context. Second site Philip Pullman additionally states about his own belief and work: So then these aren't actually from the books. See above "… if there is a God, and he is as the Christians describe him, then he deserves to be put down and rebelled against."
"I wanted to reach everyone," he says, "and the best way I could hope to do that was to write for children."
"My books are about killing God." The first one seems to be a variant of a quote I have heard before. As for the last one, I would like to know how he defines God. Secondly, maybe he is saying that to get a reaction out of society; same way as LaVey did with his brand of atheism by calling it Satanism.
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:03 pm
Well, now if this isn't an example of what was said in the Narnia thread: chaoticpuppet ...you can put any meaning you want to any book that has ever been written. I don't know what is! This Beliefnet article extols the CHRISTIAN virtues! The basics are: 1. Pursue Truth Wherever It Takes You 2. Love Your Soul with All Your Heart 3. Knowledge Is Divine 4. Someone Is Always Watching Out for You 5. The Devil Is Often (Wicked) Beautiful 6. Always Be a Good Samaritan 7. Always Help Your True Friends When They Are in Need 8. Defy Authority When It's Corrupt 9. Fight for the Good--and If You Must Fight, Do It Fiercely 10. Keep Your Soul as Close as You Can Under each basic it explains how it applies in the article. Interesting take on it. This pretty much goes along with my thoughts that you can find God and righteousness in whatever you choose to LOOK for him in. Which to me makes much more sense than boycotting and whining about everything under the sun. biggrin
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:15 pm
Kipluck Well, now if this isn't an example of what was said in the Narnia thread: chaoticpuppet ...you can put any meaning you want to any book that has ever been written. I don't know what is! This Beliefnet article extols the CHRISTIAN virtues! The basics are: 1. Pursue Truth Wherever It Takes You 2. Love Your Soul with All Your Heart 3. Knowledge Is Divine 4. Someone Is Always Watching Out for You 5. The Devil Is Often (Wicked) Beautiful 6. Always Be a Good Samaritan 7. Always Help Your True Friends When They Are in Need 8. Defy Authority When It's Corrupt 9. Fight for the Good--and If You Must Fight, Do It Fiercely 10. Keep Your Soul as Close as You Can Under each basic it explains how it applies in the article. Interesting take on it. This pretty much goes along with my thoughts that you can find God and righteousness in whatever you choose to LOOK for him in. Which to me makes much more sense than boycotting and whining about everything under the sun. biggrin To me it also parallels the "Few Bad Apples" thread. There are quite a few Christians that want to boycott and try to ban anything they don't agree with even though they don't know anything about it.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:43 pm
Kraggus Doomhammer Kipluck Well, now if this isn't an example of what was said in the Narnia thread: chaoticpuppet ...you can put any meaning you want to any book that has ever been written. I don't know what is! This Beliefnet article extols the CHRISTIAN virtues! The basics are: 1. Pursue Truth Wherever It Takes You 2. Love Your Soul with All Your Heart 3. Knowledge Is Divine 4. Someone Is Always Watching Out for You 5. The Devil Is Often (Wicked) Beautiful 6. Always Be a Good Samaritan 7. Always Help Your True Friends When They Are in Need 8. Defy Authority When It's Corrupt 9. Fight for the Good--and If You Must Fight, Do It Fiercely 10. Keep Your Soul as Close as You Can Under each basic it explains how it applies in the article. Interesting take on it. This pretty much goes along with my thoughts that you can find God and righteousness in whatever you choose to LOOK for him in. Which to me makes much more sense than boycotting and whining about everything under the sun. biggrin To me it also parallels the "Few Bad Apples" thread. There are quite a few Christians that want to boycott and try to ban anything they don't agree with even though they don't know anything about it. Very true. I am NOT a big fan of that philosophy. But I tend to search for truth in all places (even though I feel I have found the MOST truth in the LDS church). ... God is not exclusive, and loves ALL his children. But Yeah, not all of us are into that whole "Eeek Ban it!" thing.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:58 pm
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:51 pm
I saw it. I was fairly disappointed in it myself, having read the book not long prior to seeing the movie. I saw it again a second time, though, because my boyfriend wanted to go and I felt more forgiving towards it that time.
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