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[gossamer]!smile.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:39 pm


    Does that make me a bad person?

    I keep my insults to myself, if I have to cooperate with the unpreffered race I will without complaint, etcetera, etcetera. It's more like a personal hatred, than a vocalized one.

    So, people, what do you think?

    ps. I'm mexican, if that somehow helps. Most people assume I'm white when they hear that.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:56 pm


I guess it depends on whether or not you recognize racism as a bad thing. Almost everyone, with the exception of people raised in isolation from racial distinctions and stereotypes, has racist thoughts now and then. I try not to act on them when they surface, and work on deconstructing the basis of them, but I still have them.

It might be a matter of keeping your inner b***h on the inside. If you're really not displaying those racist thoughts, you're not hurting anyone but yourself.

Wishbone R
Vice Captain


The Chubby Monkey

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:31 pm


No, if you just keep your thoughts inside yourself. If you did let them out, then you would be considered a hurtful idiot. If you don't make racist comments, I wouldn't consider you bad.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:01 pm


    So the general rule is; no harm, no foul.

    Makes sense.
    Thankyou for your replies.
    Though I would like a few more.

[gossamer]!smile.


kaze_sango

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:47 am


Do you not want to have these thoughts or feelings anymore? Or do you not mind them?

If you dislike these thoughts (which, I think you should), maybe you should try and evaluate why you have those thoughts and/or feelings and then teach yourself that the stereotypes and racism you hold isn't true.

I'll say, however, that if you aren't outright racist and mean, then I guess it isn't hurting anyone except yourself.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:47 am


[gossamer]!smile.
    Does that make me a bad person?

    I keep my insults to myself, if I have to cooperate with the unpreffered race I will without complaint, etcetera, etcetera. It's more like a personal hatred, than a vocalized one.

    So, people, what do you think?

    ps. I'm mexican, if that somehow helps. Most people assume I'm white when they hear that.


A bad person? No. Actions make one good or bad. For example, I am enraged to the point of homicidal desires at the reckless and apparently suicidal driving tendencies of the people of the country where I now reside, but I do not act upon those desires. Therefore, my thoughts that, as a rule of thumb, people from said country are not to be trusted when behind the wheel of a motor vehicle does not actually make me a bad person. That I left my spouse and children for a couple of years to go gallivanting overseas does, actually, probably make me a bad person.

However, that being said, your racism does probably make you ill-informed, ignorant, and woefully short of scientific knowledge. But, so that we may better understand your predicament, what thoughts and feelins do you hold about the "race" in question that cause you to feel you are a racist?

Rohkaze


zz1000zz

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:53 am


I am going to have to disagree with the trend here and say yes. By asking, "Does that make me a bad person?" you imply the judgment should be based upon a moral standard. At that point, most moral systems would agree that your racism is "bad." However, it is quite possible this facet of yours is outweighed by other aspects unknown to us, which could make you a "good" person, despite being racist. With that caveat stated, as it stands you are a "bad" person.

From a non-moral system, there is nothing inherently wrong with being a racist. So long as your feelings have no impact upon anyone else, they are irrelevant to anyone but yourself.

In short, the world should not care, but you should.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:01 pm


zz1000zz
I am going to have to disagree with the trend here and say yes. By asking, "Does that make me a bad person?" you imply the judgment should be based upon a moral standard. At that point, most moral systems would agree that your racism is "bad." However, it is quite possible this facet of yours is outweighed by other aspects unknown to us, which could make you a "good" person, despite being racist. With that caveat stated, as it stands you are a "bad" person.

From a non-moral system, there is nothing inherently wrong with being a racist. So long as your feelings have no impact upon anyone else, they are irrelevant to anyone but yourself.

In short, the world should not care, but you should.


Even though I am loathe to make a quick response, I am afraid I am going to have to at this moment as I do not have the sources readily available at this moment to make a lengthier reply.

But, as to why someone might have racist thoughts or group people into categories subjectively when we otherwise scientifically and rationally know those categories to be false is because we are evolved to seek out patterns, whether real or not.

Both Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins expound upon this theory of human development, and I wish I had their references in front of me right now so as to give you a detailed explanation. But, simply, the idea is that the human mind as an adaptive survival trait learned to operate by rules of thumb. This even works for complex ideas beyond "fast things with large teeth equals danger". For example, watching the sun move across the sky followed by the stars doing the same led to early beliefs that the celestial objects moved around the Earth (which we know understand to be false). This is a foundational concept in how such false yet widely accepted complex beliefs such as religion arose - via the pattern seeking mind.

In the case of racism, we know such grouping of people, usually first by skin color and then by a few other selective traits such as language, is highly problematic and usually very inaccurate when trying to assess an individual. However, this is still the result of that same pattern-seeking mind. So, it is wholly understandable that if a person has several difficulties with, say, the green people, that person's brain is liable to construct a pattern that says green people are hostile and to be avoided, whether this is actually true of the green people on a whole.

This is why I say racist thoughts in and of themselves do not make a person bad. I am especially impressed that this person has moved to the point where they recognize they have racist thoughts and feels a need to question the validity of those thoughts, even while still presently holding onto them.

I understand that you were measuring "good" or "bad" by an implied moral code, but I think the most universal of moral codes really focuses on behavior over thought, recognizing that at times we all have 'inappropriate' thoughts but what matters is whether or not we act upon them. This would be another reason why I must disagree with your conclusion that the author of the OP is a "bad: person.

All the best.

Rohkaze


Corn-Sama Ze Stalker

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:31 pm


I'm terribly racist, and I'll voice it, too. However, I tend to find that most people aren't offended by my racism (unless they're the, "I'mma kick yer a** cuz you lukzd at me funyz" kind of person) because I'm openly racist to every race.

You seem to at least be quiet about it and not complain when you have to work or be in contact with a person of the race that you dislike, which puts you a notch above me, and I actually tend to be a pretty decent and polite person most of the time. So, in my personal standards, you are not a bad person. Then again, if I were a radical Christian enthusiast (like half of the people I'm forced to be in contact with), I would probably think you were a terrible person for judging people by race and not religion. Please note that I'm not saying this to be mean to those radical Christian enthusiast people out there. This is seriously what one of those types of people just told me to put in here because he thought it was funny. I thought it was funny, too.

That's all I've got.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:40 pm


Rohkaze, your post does not have much bearing on mine. There is no actual disagreement between the two. I agree racism can easily stem from natural processes.

As for moral codes, the more universal ones do not dictate "morality" at all. Instead they dictate acceptable behavior, typically through concepts such as "legality." As there is no way to observe a person's thoughts, it is quite impossible for these systems to have any code against racism. Indeed, in these systems racism is not necessarily "bad," and only becomes such when it causes actions.

zz1000zz


Rohkaze

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:27 pm


zz1000zz
Rohkaze, your post does not have much bearing on mine. There is no actual disagreement between the two. I agree racism can easily stem from natural processes.

As for moral codes, the more universal ones do not dictate "morality" at all. Instead they dictate acceptable behavior, typically through concepts such as "legality." As there is no way to observe a person's thoughts, it is quite impossible for these systems to have any code against racism. Indeed, in these systems racism is not necessarily "bad," and only becomes such when it causes actions.


I am confused, then, as in your first post you did say this person was bad. So, could you clarify for me whether, in response to gossamersmile's question, whether or not you think they are a bad person?

My whole response was a rebuttal to calling them a bad person, and may make more sense to you in that light.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:10 pm


Many people say that the color of your skin shouldn't matter. However, I beg to differ to a certain extent. People of different skin colors have different cultures and mannerisms. Now i'm not saying that every black man is involved in a different culture than a white one, or mexican with a different than an asian, although I am saying the majority of each group does participate in their respective cultures. So I wouldn't say you're racist by not agreeing with one of their cultures, since you're only disliking them for that reason, and not for the color of their skin. However obviously you are racist if you only hate a group for their appearance. So which is it?

Half Wasian


zz1000zz

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:36 am


Rohkaze
zz1000zz
Rohkaze, your post does not have much bearing on mine. There is no actual disagreement between the two. I agree racism can easily stem from natural processes.

As for moral codes, the more universal ones do not dictate "morality" at all. Instead they dictate acceptable behavior, typically through concepts such as "legality." As there is no way to observe a person's thoughts, it is quite impossible for these systems to have any code against racism. Indeed, in these systems racism is not necessarily "bad," and only becomes such when it causes actions.


I am confused, then, as in your first post you did say this person was bad. So, could you clarify for me whether, in response to gossamersmile's question, whether or not you think they are a bad person?

My whole response was a rebuttal to calling them a bad person, and may make more sense to you in that light.


zz1000zz
By asking, "Does that make me a bad person?" you imply the judgment should be based upon a moral standard. At that point, most moral systems would agree that your racism is "bad."


He is "bad" on a moral level. The more universal "moral" codes have nothing to do with morality, and under them he would not be "bad."
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:12 pm


In truth, racism, predijuces and other such silly things are passed down from generation to generation. I'm not saying it's the parent's fault, but they probably didn't help with your thoughts. Whether your parents spoke about a certain race, or sexuality in a racist way, or your parents never bothered to explain to you, or even learn about the cultures themselves, you most probably follow. There are so many other ways to learn, teachers, any adults in general, but once something is written in your mind's journal, you're sort of stuck with it.

So, I don't believe you're a bad person, or not opened minded, but maybe you just didn't learn enough about the certain races and such that you are racist towards.

Also, I'm sorry if this didn't make much sense. I'm not really thinking properly. I'm very, very tired. ^^;;

DownwardXSpiral


The Formless One

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:22 pm


Heh, this is quite an interesting discussion. Well, I personally think being racist doesn't make you a "bad" person, it just makes you a racist. Since "evil" is simply the action that is against the majorities opinion of being good. So I would assume that such action of not being racist is evil in someones eyes, some where. And so, some would consider you evil, but I hope people wouldn't judge someone on a single belief or action.
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Splatterfox

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