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I'd like to rant for a little bit on the subject of Wing and its reception by American fans (especially those who are, or might be considered, strong Universal Century fans). I will warn you, because I'm in a rather bad mood at the moment, I'm gonna use some pretty foul language here, so if that sort of thing offends you please turn back now.

Okay? Well, here goes...

...What the ******** is wrong with people?

In case you don't browse 4chan (or as some call it, the Internet's Sinkhole), someone made a hoax where he posted a segment from a fake interview with Gundam Wing's director Masashi Ikeda. In it, "Ikeda" says that Wing was made on a bet, with him saying that he could make a generic, bland shounen anime based off of Gundam and it would still be popular.

In case it wasn't obvious, this is a complete lie; the person who posted it to 4chan even said he was just trolling. But what really annoys me...people are believing it.

Well, maybe that's not fair. But they want to believe it. They'd love to think that Wing is a joke, a farce, not a real Gundam show. And why?

Is it because the Gundams and their pilots are "invincible"? They're certainly no more invincible than most fictional protagonists are, and in some cases they actually take more damage than their peers in other universes.

Is it because the heroes are bishounen? That's never an indicator of a show's quality, but some are all too willing to take it as one.

Is it because of the pacifist philosophy? Really, too many people seem to misunderstand what pacifism is, and completely ignore the fact that Gundam is, always has been, and (unless someone really drops the ball) always will be anti-war. Pacifism is just the natural extension of that philosophy.

Is it because the show brought yaoi fangirls into the Gundam fandom? It's not like they wouldn't have been there anyway (heck, they were around before Wing, thanks to Char and Garma).

In the end, I think there's one glaringly obvious reason for their hate: because these people are a bunch of narrow-minded bigots who are so stuck in their ways that they can't accept change. Things have to be this one way or they're wrong. For Gundam, if it's not Zeta or Victory, then it's crap.

The really horrible and galling thing is that these people, who go out of their way to hate and insult and belittle anyone who disagrees with them or has different tastes...they consider themselves to be true Gundam fans. These insane assholes, fighting a Crusade against individuality and variety, think that they're better fans than you and I, all because we like "that hippy f*****t show".

And it really pisses me off. I like all Gundam, but I think that it all needs improvement. Wing could have used better pacing, for one. The UC could really stand to ratchet the Newtype superpower phenomena a few levels, and maybe to do some stories that aren't centered on the One-Year War. But really, nothing's perfect. Anyone with half a brain knows that.

I'm sort of running out of steam here, but in the end I suppose my point is pretty much that, as a Gundam fan, I'm just completely disgusted that people like this are the ones who consider themselves (and are all too often considered) the REAL fans of Mr. Tomino's work and its spinoffs, when all they do is sow discontent and hatred throughout the fan community.

Fans shouldn't be hating and fighting one another; we have a unique bond that brings us together, when normally we would never have recognized one another. And it's not just the anime; even without that, we've got plenty in common and can be good friends for other reasons. And that's what we SHOULD do. Forget the differences, focus on the commonalities, and work together. Because in the end, anime is made to entertain us, and nothing's as much fun as it is when you share it with people you really like.

This may seem like a useless post but Void...

Thank you, just... Thank you.

I think that all really needed to be said, and I am really on the same page with you about all of it. I am disgusted with fans that consider Wing "crap" and who say they are "true fans" That's complete BS in my mind and I really hate it.

Rime: I don't think I blame you for avoiding 4chan...I don't go there myself. Most of my contact with it is due to friends linking images and occasionally topics, mostly to either laugh or sigh at how stupid they are.

But if you're curious, here's the text:

Masashi Ikeda: “Gundam Wing was a joke, we made it because we knew it would be popular with the public, the anime airing in that time period was all pretty bad, most of the same things seen over and over again in shows. I made a bet with a coworker that I could make a generic, bland, Shounen anime out of something popular like ‘Mobile Suit Gundam’ and it would become popular with the youth of today, just like all the other garbage.”

Gfan: “So what you’re saying is, Wing was never meant to be serious, and has basically been tricking fans for over a decade?”

Ikeda: Yes, although Wing turned out to be a fine anime when compared to other things at the time

It was originally posted to 4chan with a link to an article on Anime News Network (which didn't work). Later, the original poster admitted that he was just trolling, but a lot of people seem to have jumped onto it as if it were Word of God.

Hoshi/Nowhere: I think what really annoys me about the Wing haters is how they seem to have assumed, within five minutes of even HEARING about the show's existence, that it's completely banal and worthless and that anyone who likes it must be either braindead or solely fixated on the thought of the guys screwing each other.

Rather ironically, my first real exposure to Gundam was through the Char's Counterattack video game in 1999. When I heard one of the shows was going to air on TV, I was pretty excited. Of course, it's probably worth noting that the magazine in which I read about Wing's arrival used the phrase "Or as some fans know it, 'The Show With the Goddamn Prettyboys Who Never Lose'". Worse, when I expressed excitement about the show to a friend of my brother's at anime club, he shook his head and said "Chris, it's a girl's show..." (And this guy is pretty cool and level-headed, bear in mind).

What doesn't help is that there are people who misunderstand the show and still call themselves fans. The people who give Trowa a words-per-day budget, turn Quatre's gentleness into a limp-wristed, Hollywood style "comedy queer" (please pardon my use of the term), etc.

I really don't think that a concerted effort to change peoples' opinions about Wing will help, because they don't WANT to change. We might see the show's qualities, but they'll always look at it for the qualities that the haters have attributed to it - invincible heroes spouting whiny morals while posing dramatically just to give the drooling fangirls more material for their DeviantArt pages.

As sad as it may sound, all we really CAN do is just continue to be intelligent Wing fans. We're a dying breed, and we need all the help we can get.

Personal view about sexuality in Gundam Wing: It doesn't matter. The show isn't about love, or sex, or romantic issues. It's about war and politics and such. Besides, most of the major cast is still in their mid-teens; nobody decides who they're going to spend their life with at that age. Give the cast some time to settle down after dealing with all the insane stuff that's happened to them, and sure, then you can deal with romance. But during the show itself, it's not like Heero was ducking missions just to be intimate with Relena OR Duo; he had more important things to do.

And I think Mr. McNeil can be given a miss, since the poor guy is constantly surrounded by fangirls, shoving fics and art into his face and begging for vindication. He apparently tells people that he doesn't have a computer just so they won't try to hunt down his email and swamp him with stuff.

I think this is totally on base. I'm actually dealing with someone like that. She claims that she doesn't dislike the show, but that she doesn't like it because "SEED is better". Well, how is SEED better? She's yet to answer me in a convincing manner that doesn't illustrate weak points and her gullibility of the Wing stereotypes. The only thing she has going for her is the concept of a two-legged humanoid mech vs a four-legged animal-like mech. SEED actually elaborated on the concept, which is also addressed in Zoids, that an extremely sophisticated balance system would be needed to support a mech that is basically top heavy in the way a Gundam is. For all intents and purposes, the Gundams should barely be able to stand in Earth's gravity, let alone walk and fight they way they do... even less so for the near martial arts style maneuvers they have them doing in Gundam Wing and God Gundam. That's why, in SEED, you see them using animal-like mechs on Earth instead of humanoid mechs. However, SEED is the only Gundam series to address the issue, as all other Gundam shows use primarily humanoid mecha with the exception of the occasional tank style or mobile armor vehicle (like the Tragos, for example).

As for romance... No. That was never in the show, and was never intended as part of the storyline. People who argue and claim they're right and everyone else is wrong about certain pairings are blind to the true message of the show. It was never about romance. It was about connecting... coming together and working for a common goal, which happened to be peace after decades and decades of war. In my mind, the connection between Heero and Relena symbolizes more the connection between the colonies and Earth. When they came together and worked for a common goal, they were able to achieve the seemingly impossible. Sure, they had their own ways of doing things. But, it showed that, as long as everyone wants the same thing, they can learn to work together to achieve it. The only definitive relationship that can be considered anywhere near canon would be Noin and Zechs because they basically flew off into the... well... Mars-set (instead of sunset) together at the end of Endless Waltz after showing hints of having something of an affair/fling/connection during their Academy days. And, even then, that's up to interpretation, because it could have ended up being nothing more than a deep friendship/partnership. Even Lady Une and Treize wasn't really canon because everything they did was too subtle. They were never actually a true couple, despite her obvious obsession over him.

As far as I'm concerned, all relationships are up to fan interpretation. While I may not agree with all opinions on the matter, I believe that any well-written fanfiction could conceivably convince me of one way or the other for a particular relationship... minus a few exceptions, since there are some that I will refuse to acknowledge simply on the fact of age differences and societal acceptance. But, that's besides the point. What I'm trying to say is that the show was never about the relationships and romance. It was never to preach at people about pacifism. It's a typical Japanese ending that says, "By working together, we can achieve anything." Very positive, very team oriented, very "love/friendship/teamwork finds a way"... very typical for an anime.

The problem with Wing was that it was never truly finished. They ended it abruptly because of issues with the staff. Even the manga are technically 'unfinished'. Look at Preventer 5. Someone tried to continue the storyline, but it fell apart. It was just never meant to be, despite best laid plans. There had been a ton more in the works for the show and for the manga, but it never panned out because of arguments behind the scenes. It's a shame, because it's obviously still extremely popular... even without the nutjobs who over-generalize it and write ridiculous fanfiction.

My favorite essay out there is Croik's essay, Gundam Wing is a Victim of Fan Rape... because, well, it is. And, unfortunately, I think it's the fans that support and follow some of the more whacked out stereotypes that make other Gundam fans think that Wing is a farce. In life, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and it's the nutjob fans that get noticed by the diehards because they're generally louder than us intelligent fans.

Give a miss = Give a break, cut some slack, etc. I'm just saying that I think I can understand Scott being a bit tired of yaoi since the poor guy plays multiple characters who have captured that group's attention (Duo, Koga, etc) and unfortunately more...enthusiastic members of the fandom don't seem to get that he might not be all that interested in who his characters are having sex with.

One more little rant:

Why is it that, whenever someone makes a topic about Gundam Wing, there's always a rush to be the first person to call the show unrealistic? Is there some prize that I don't know about?

Anyway, how is Wing worse than any other giant robot show? Hell, how's it worse than other Gundams? Do I really need to mention things like Camille's little Spirit Bomb power-up?

Giant robots are unrealistic - ALL of them. Even the shows that try to "justify" the existence of mecha and make them small and clunky, such as Full Metal Panic, Votoms, and Patlabor, are unrealistic. The only difference is that some shows embrace the lack of realism and run with it; these are typically Super Robot shows. The ones that try to use more hard SF, or at least attempts at it, to explain the mecha, are Real Robots.

And really, the MS aren't even the focus of Gundam Wing. The characters and the politics are. The MS are just there to help move the plot along. I've heard people call Wing "a mediocre anime series, but crappy as a Gundam show". The big thing is, Wing is one of the few Gundam series where removing the mobile suits WOULDN'T cripple the plot. Is that a sign of Wing's "badness", or of the other shows, which are so heavily tied to the setting that the giant toy-selling robots are that integral to their worlds?