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Okay, so maybe I was spending a BIT too much time on Free Republic sweatdrop

Anyway, I found a link to Catholics For Free Choice. Which...surprise surprise...isn't Catholic.

Not only do they stand against almost everything the Catholic Church stands for, they do it proudly while wearing the badge of Catholicism.

The Church has denounced this group. I agree with them fully. Abortion goes against the fundamental values of the Catholic Faith. To say abortion is moral under Catholic law is ludicrous.

It is an excommunicable offense. It's not like I base my prolife stance off of my religion, but in the religious sense, yes, I still need to be prolife reasonably. It makes no sense to be prochoice and Catholic. If I was prochoice, I wouldn't be Catholic becasue Catholicism obviously wouldn't be the right Church for me.

Here's the first half of the page on abortion and sin:

"Assertion: Abortion is a sin. It is evil and immoral.

Response:

* I believe it is immoral that during the course of this hour, eight women will die from unsafe abortion. I believe it is immoral that women are branded as criminals simply because they have an abortion.

* When a woman takes seriously the question of whether or not she should continue a pregnancy � whether or not she should bring a child into the world � and concludes, through a serious process of self-reflection, that the most moral thing she can do is to terminate the pregnancy, it is hard for me to say that she is immoral. Even if she has drawn a conclusion that I would not draw, even if I think it is the wrong decision, I really respect her process and would never call her immoral.

* However much women may need the advice and support of family, friends, doctors, lawyers, and priests, women must be recognized as the primary moral agents in decisions of pregnancy and birth.

* We must promote, first of all, safe and effective contraception, then comprehensive instruction on the use of such contraception, and adequate child support for women who want to bear a child but cannot support themselves and their children. Finally, we must promote a culture that affirms the woman as the primary moral agent in the decisions that affect her life. Any church or society refusing to promote these policies is, in effect, promoting abortion."


I'm sorry, but I do believe that many criminals die every hour in failed attempts to carry out a crime. Why is it okay for a woman to kill her child but no one else can kill anyone? People die every hour trying to kill other people. That doesn't make it right! If everyone is their own moral authority, there is no need for the Catholic Church. There is barely any need for the bible. You can get by on a children's popup book that tells you the life and times of Jesus if everyone can be their own moral barometer. In addition to that, does killing 166 humans an hour to save 8 make sense? Not to mention that in 1960 only 4-5 women died hourly due to abortion, and now that it's legal, more women are dying hourly due to illegal abortion?

Saying a fetus has no soul directly defies the bible. God knew you when he created you in the womb. Jesus was a zygote at one point, was he soulless or not a person until he was born? If that's so, than the annunciation should happen simultaneously with Christmas...

"Hey Mary, now's about the time to tell you that your baby is about to become your Savior. Sorry for these crummy accomodations, I was going to book you a room at the Inn, but I was too busy trying to calculate exactly when the soul entered into your body. Well it's not there yet....wait until he's ALL the way out."

Did that happen? No. Or she'd have had no time to visit Elizabeth. John would not have leapt in the womb. JESUS WAS IN HER WOMB FROM CONCEPTION. Not the body of Jesus, not the eventual Jesus, our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. In order for Jesus Christ to become flesh, He had to be born into this world like all the rest of us are...go from pregnancy all the way to adulthood. If the soul enters at birth, then wouldn't He have entered her womb at birth in order to be truly human? Isn't it a fair assumption that Jesus was made flesh to save us, it means he went through the same growing process that the rest of us did physiologically?

That is biblical evidence enough for me that abortion is killing a person. Not a souless shell of a human, but a person. Unless Jesus isn't good enough. Anyone who feels that though should seriously consider why they are Christian.

Didn't Jesus say in Matthew 25:40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Since we've established Jesus was once an embryo during his period of humanity, (unless of course there was just 9 months of Mary getting very fat for some odd reason) it is very clear to me that fetuses are also souls loved by Jesus (unless God doesn't love us until we reach a certain age. "You go sit over there and age, then I'll love you." Except that He loves us from the moment he creates us.) and aborting a fetus is essentially aborting Jesus in the same way that refusing to feed the hungry or clothe the naked is refusing to feed and clothe him. Hurting one that Jesus loves hurts Jesus. There IS biblical proof that Jesus loves all souls, that it is hurting Jesus to hurt one that He loves, and enough evidence to support the theory that souls are with us even from the moment of conception.

What more biblical evidence is needed?

That's just one group. How many other Religious Hypocrites walk among our crowds? The same who baptize aborted babies for women? "This isn't a person, but we'll baptize him/her/it anyway because well just because." Where do they stand and on what biblical basis do they say abortion is moral?

Trying to promote evil through the church now that pisses me off, and they should be excommunicated. Its one thing is you want to make a pro-choice group outside of the church, but to fly it under the banner of religion is just sickening.

C'mon, i'm sure you've heard of "don't ask, don't tell". Just don't bring out your views into the open. It's still possible to believe and contradict a teaching. We can't all be stout, firm, and unwavering believers.

I think Lutherans can be prochoice. I don't know a single prolife lutheran, anyway.

It doesn't bug me for people to be prochoice. It bugs me for them to advocate something strongly and use the Catholic name to go with it.

Personally? I'm Catholic and I'd rather have gay rights. I disagree with that particular view, but I don't act on homosexual tendancies (it'd be very hard to do since I don't have any. Well I might have some, but that'd be kinda odd.) and I don't lobby the Church to condone homosexual marriage. I realize that doesn't fit in with doctrine and I've accepted that even if I feel they should, they really shouldn't. In fact, if the government were to try and force Catholic churches to sanction homosexual marriages, I'd be against it. Separation of church and state means just that. They can't force religion on anyone.

If you are Catholic and prochoice, you don't need to leave. If you start persuading women to have abortions and working at clinics, that they might have a problem with, but it's not a sin to disagree with something. We have brains. We're human. We can think what we want about doctrine as long as we follow it. You can be gay and Catholic, you just can't have sex without it being a sin. Protesting for prochoice though might be...I dunno. I hadn't thought about that.

There are a lot of good people who're prochoice. Many smart, admirable people in fact. I really respect those who fight for what they feel is right, even if I disagree. But these people keep going against so much of Church doctrine. They aren't Catholic. They should stop saying they are just to get people to think the Catholic Church is fine with abortion or it should be because Catholics themselves are! No. Catholics are mostly against most abortion. Almost all Catholics believe that in order to save a life, abortion is acceptable. Almost no Catholics believe that abortion should be given at any point in pregnancy for any reason whatsoever. Are there prochoice Catholics? Many. Not a large percentage, but it's a big community comprised of many people. They're misrepresenting people and it offends me greatly.