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 Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:30 am
The Daily Beacon: Men Essential to Abortion DebateQuote: Men essential to abortion debate Travis Lee - Columnist Thursday, October 18, 2007 issue Click here to print Selfish, sexist women have monopolized the abortion decision. Pro-choice feminists spew rhetoric about fighting for a woman’s right to choose. Notice the exclusion of the word “man.” Despite the load of sperm needed to create that soon-to-be-aborted fetus, men apparently do not factor into the abortion question. A woman carries the child, so that means she has the sole right to decide, the desires of her partner be damned. I wonder how many of these people have actually had sex. I ask because their exclusion of men from all of this reproductive rights babble seems to imply they believe men play no role whatsoever in the process of reproduction. Strange. You’d think at some point, probably when his p***s is thrusting inside her, a realization might dawn on her. An epiphany: Men are just as involved in this thing as women. Then again, it does hurt your self-centered crusade for “reproductive rights,” the right to do what you want with your body, by which you encompass the fate of the fertilized egg inside of you. If you acknowledge that men are important too, then that opens up a new avenue, namely one that involves men. Why should reproductive rights be limited just to women? If the pro-choice movement is going to exclude men, then I suggest coming up with a far less misleading name. Might I propose “illogical sexism”? It brings a bit more truth to the table. It gets better. Some of these same people believe men are not essential to reproduction. I actually overheard one girl declare that “all you need is sperm.” But where do you think the sperm comes from in the first place? Women are considered the “givers of life,” but how do you think they create life? Babies do not spontaneously appear in the womb. The independent, battered woman freed from heinous patriarchal oppression still needs sperm manufactured in testicles if she wants to have a kid, and despite your best efforts, fathers can play an important role in the development of children. Not that society would dare enforce such a notion. Courts rarely give a father’s concerns the same weight as a mother’s, and in society, credit is given to the mother while the father’s role, assuming he showed up for the job, is more of an afterthought. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, and with a dwindling number of male role models, it’s no wonder shows like “The Pick Up Artist” — where men have to learn how to meet and talk to women — exist. It’s no wonder the caricature of the “dumb dad” is acceptable while the same attributes applied to a woman would be forbidden. It’s no wonder that women outnumber men in college attendance. Men’s rights groups use this as evidence for “reverse sexism,” but there is no such thing. Sexism is sexism, no “reverse” to it. Labeling it as “reverse” marginalizes and diminishes the entire act, giving us the idea that maybe it’s not as bad when perpetuated by a historically oppressed group, when in fact it’s just as bad, if not worse thanks to the cover and blind eye turned toward it. Is that “equality” talking? Feminism is supposed to be about equality of the sexes, a fact that might not be apparent to anyone born after 1980 or so. Equality — we love to talk about equality. Numerous laws and policies are passed in an effort to promote equality of the sexes and racial equality. A few quotas, a little diversity and a few less laws on your body makes everyone happy. In our public discourse, equality talks big. It sure does ... with a nice, big muzzle strapped around its mouth. — Travis Lee is a senior in French. He can be reached at wlee10@utk.edu.
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:38 am
Quote: Men are just as involved in this thing as women. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaha... owait he's serious. Do males get pregnant? No. Do males carry a foetus around inside them for nine months? No. Do males have to put up with ANY side effects of pregnancy? No. And do men have to give birth? That's another big fat NO. So nah, men AREN'T 'just as involved' in this thing as women. That's the long, short, fact and truth of it. He's probably just pissed because his girlfriend had an abortion without asking him.
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:29 am
I showed this to my male fiance... and his response:
"What a pig"
HE gets it. I hope you can explain it to him, RedRoseSpiral.
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:37 am
Quote: Babies do not spontaneously appear in the womb. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Orly? Some "lifers" would have you think that they do. That there is no male involvement whatsoever. Until the woman decides it must go. Then poof! "Don't kill my babeh!!!!" Okay thats not exactly what i wanted to say but close to it. I'm sick and I can't think straight. Quote: It’s no wonder that women outnumber men in college attendance. Maybe thats because we now finally get to decide our futures. At least a little bit more than we used to. Jeez, dude. THAT is a sexist statement and I'm sure even the male population would smack you for that. RedRoseSpiral I hope you give him hell. Make him right a retraction!!
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:44 am
I always liked the response that was something along the lines of: If the father of the fetus wants it... he can have it in a little jar after I've gotten it out of MY body.
It demonstrates an undeniable fact: The fetus is inside the woman's body. As such it is her right to make decisions about her body. If the man wants control over the fetus he can have it, but he can’t have control over the woman’s body.
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:52 pm
Quote: It gets better. Some of these same people believe men are not essential to reproduction. I actually overheard one girl declare that “all you need is sperm.” But where do you think the sperm comes from in the first place? Women are considered the “givers of life,” but how do you think they create life? Babies do not spontaneously appear in the womb. The independent, battered woman freed from heinous patriarchal oppression still needs sperm manufactured in testicles if she wants to have a kid, and despite your best efforts, fathers can play an important role in the development of children. Sperm can be taken from a woman's bone marrow. You are no longer neccesary. Good day. And let me know when you get pregnant, because then your arguments will be valid.
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:25 pm
I'm working on the e-mail right now. I'll post it for critiquing before I send it off. Maybe even later tonight/this morning.
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:05 pm
Okay! Here it is. If you think something is missing or something needs to be changed please tell me.Quote: Dear Mr. Lee, I read your article on abortion and men the other day and I have to say I was torn between being disgusted and wanting to laugh. I'm guessing no one has every enlightened you with the knowledge of bodily domain rights. All people are entitled to the right of bodily domain. Which means all people have the right to their body and no person can take that right away from them or use their body for their own means. This right has been set in presedent through many court cases including the Supreme Court case Shimp v. McFall (a case where one party was sueing for an injunction in order to force the other party into being tested for a bone marrow match and, if matched, the giving up of said bone marrow). Here is a quote from Judge Flaherty (one of the Supreme Court Justices) that I think is very fitting with this subject. "For our law to compel the defendant to submit to an intrusion of his body would change the very concept and principle upon which our society is founded...to sink its teeth into the jugular vein or neck of one of its members and suck from it sustenance for another member, is revolting to our hard-wrought concept of jurisprudence." Why I think this fits in is because it shows no person can legally force another to use their body in a way they do not want no matter what is on the line for the forcer. No man has the right to tell a woman how to use her body. Just like no woman can tell a man what to do with his. It isn't sexism to want to protect one's bodily domain. A woman being able to decide what happens to her body is equal rights. Now I think, to put it in simple terms, it pretty much sucks when there is a situation where one party wants to be a parent and the other does not (women aren't the only ones who want a pregnancy to end. Some men try to force their partner to abort a pregnancy because they don't want to be a parent). The only way to stop these situations from arising is for both parties to talk about their feelings on pregnancy at that time in their lives and what each party would want to happen and then take the necessary procausions. The way I see it, if a man wants to be a father he needs to find a woman who is ready to be a mother. Just like a woman who wants to be a mother needs to find a man who is ready to be a father. To force parenthood, pregnancy, or the mix of the two on anyone is not fair. About the women who think men aren't essential to reproduction, to some extent they are right. Men give sperm the rest happens in the woman's womb. The woman's nuitrinents are used; her body is what the fetus uses to devolpe. A man has no part in this. An essential bit is given by a man in reproduction but he in himself is not essential to the big picture of reproduction. For the most part, all is given by the woman. I hope this has given you something to think about. Sincerely, Tiffany Kraus http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras2777/judpol/mcfall.html
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:38 pm
having been through an unwanted pregnancy wherein the guy wanted to be a parent, i have half a mind to rip this kid a new a*****e. however, my email would be riddled with curse words, so i'm going to use my better judgement and let this kid live his pretty little life thinking his pretty little thoughts. if it ever appears he has meandered back to reality, i'll think about chatting with him.
until then, i am going to continue to research technology that would allow someone to send their fist through a monitor to punch someone opening an email.
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:21 am
Lupine Pyrefly Quote: It gets better. Some of these same people believe men are not essential to reproduction. I actually overheard one girl declare that “all you need is sperm.” But where do you think the sperm comes from in the first place? Women are considered the “givers of life,” but how do you think they create life? Babies do not spontaneously appear in the womb. The independent, battered woman freed from heinous patriarchal oppression still needs sperm manufactured in testicles if she wants to have a kid, and despite your best efforts, fathers can play an important role in the development of children. You are no longer neccesary. Good day. And let me know when you get pregnant, because then your arguments will be valid. Seriously? eek
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:14 am
crystal_pepzi Lupine Pyrefly Quote: It gets better. Some of these same people believe men are not essential to reproduction. I actually overheard one girl declare that “all you need is sperm.” But where do you think the sperm comes from in the first place? Women are considered the “givers of life,” but how do you think they create life? Babies do not spontaneously appear in the womb. The independent, battered woman freed from heinous patriarchal oppression still needs sperm manufactured in testicles if she wants to have a kid, and despite your best efforts, fathers can play an important role in the development of children. You are no longer neccesary. Good day. And let me know when you get pregnant, because then your arguments will be valid. Seriously? eek Yeah, I'd like some sources on this; I've never heard of it and while I believe it could be possible the claim is very incredible.
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:23 am
Ok... now don't hate me, but I do sort of see his point... hidden under all the stupid crap is a valid concern:
Shouldn't the father of the would-be-child at least have some say? Not in a legal sense, I would say, but I couldn't imagine getting an abortion with out at least talking to my boyfriend about it. I mean, I know that it's my body, my choice etc... but it seems to me that the man involved is in the boat too, granted not as much so as the woman, but still involved. I would think that most...er...enlightened? women would want to work out an equal partnership with their male counterparts. We fight to make men stand up and be fathers when in many cases they get no say in whether or not they want to be. I think that it should be allowable for a man to give up all parental rights and peace out. (I'll wait for the onslaught of anger)
Ive thought alot about this problem and this is how I see it:
Pregnancies happen. When a woman discovers that she is pregnant, there is no going back. If there is no action taken against it, that woman is going to be a mother (barring unforseen complications). Her life will be forever changed, even if she gives up her baby for adoption (something I find to be very brave). However, it is possible for a woman to not be force to take this road (Abortion). However, the men in this situation have pretty much no say right now. If I get pregnant and decide I want an abortion, I'm not going to be a mother Tim (my boyfriend) is not going to be a father. If I decide to put it up for adoption, he has to deal with that. If I decide I want to keep it and play Mommy, he has to be a Father. He dosen't have to be a good father but the courts will at least force him to pay for his baby. I think that this is rather one sided, for how much we try to get men to step up and be good fathers, we should give those who wouldn't want to or wouldnt be capable a chance to bow out. I DONT mean in the legal system. I Do not think this should be a law. But it should be something that women should keep in mind when making that very difficult choice.
(Im really tired so my vocabulary is super dead right now)
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:56 am
Tulip: I think most if not all of us agree that the guy should be consulted in most cases, but his opinion should not be law. And that it's ultimately up to the woman. What he seems to be saying is that the guy's decision should be what counts, not the woman's, and that's just plain wrong. I do know that there is unfairness in the court system when awarding custody, but blame that on the courts, not the women.
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:56 am
@RedRoseSpiral: I only skimmed, but overall I thought the email was good and got to the point. You might also like to provide an example of bodily integrity in which it doesn't matter what the partner's involvement is, she/he still can't interfere: sterilization. You can't force your partner not to get sterilized, can't force them to get sterilized, though the potential for children is something that definitely affects them both.
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:38 pm
Talon-chan crystal_pepzi Lupine Pyrefly Quote: It gets better. Some of these same people believe men are not essential to reproduction. I actually overheard one girl declare that “all you need is sperm.” But where do you think the sperm comes from in the first place? Women are considered the “givers of life,” but how do you think they create life? Babies do not spontaneously appear in the womb. The independent, battered woman freed from heinous patriarchal oppression still needs sperm manufactured in testicles if she wants to have a kid, and despite your best efforts, fathers can play an important role in the development of children. You are no longer neccesary. Good day. And let me know when you get pregnant, because then your arguments will be valid. Seriously? eek Yeah, I'd like some sources on this; I've never heard of it and while I believe it could be possible the claim is very incredible. I could've sworn I had a source, but now I can't find it. The sites I found say it was actually male bone marrow. Oops. redface But this guy's still an a**.
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