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I personally think we should deport them because having so many undocumented people in the country is causing problems. It is causing problems with our health care systems when people do things like come here, run up a hefty medical bill, and then skip out without paying, causing insurance rates to rise to rediculous sums. We basically end up paying for some one else's medical treatment when some of us citizens cannot afford medical treatment ourselves.

It is bankrupting our Social security system when people who are not citizens and have never paid into that system, collect money that they do not deserve from it.

And I'd hate to bring up this cliche, but it is true: ALL illegal immigrants are criminals. Hens the first word in the term "illegal". But aside from that, I'm seeing that a lot of illegals are doing things like using other people's social security numbers to collect other people's money. And just today the thing I saw that inspired me to start this thread was an item on fox news about these two illegal immigrants in Texas for are now being granted a second hearing in a brutal rape/murder from several years ago. I have been seeing a lot of things about how illegal immigrants have been committing violent crimes (like rape and murder), and skipping out before they are arrested. Or, for example, this guy I was watching about on Fox news in New Jersey. I believe the details were that (and I could have the order mixed up here) he raped a 6 year old girl, been sent to prison, got out but didn't actually go back to Mexico (as he was supposed to, because he was an illegal from there. Although that is also INS's fault to some degree), and he ended up killing two more college girls.

I don't think we should allow so many people that we know nothing about into the country, or allow the ones that are here to stay. Because you end up with people that can commit crimes (like theft, which is what I would call the whole medical/social security issue, and violent crimes), and then don't have to deal with the consequences (leaving other people who are citizens to suffer), or that are free to commit another crime. These people have no right to be here because immigrating to this country is supposed to be a privledge, not a right. Since they are not U.S. citizens, they don't have the rights that U.S. citizens are granted by the constitution. And as often as I may disagree with our government, I will agree with them in the process that they have to allow immigrants into this country, so that we know who they are. When it comes right down to it, the illegal population is a burden on society. And for what reason? So businesses can exploit them for cheap labor, and stuff their own pockets?

I understand what you mean, but at the same time, we're not obligated to let everyone who wants to come here (even by legal means) in. I'm not saying that our government is efficient in any way, but the fact remains that we don't have to let everyone in.


This is one of those instances where the government fails. They have the time to kick someone out who came here legally, but not enough time to kick out an illegal child molester who, as a result of their lack of actually escorting him out of the country, killed two girls. I'm not saying we don't need reform, but alas, there's something like 12 million illegal immigrants in the country right now, and we don't really know anything about any of them. We don't know when another of them will exploit us or turn around and kill someone. And they really have no right to be here. Like I said before, they're becoming a burden on society. I heard this thing on the news (I believe it was fox), a couple of months ago about how a woman (who I believe was an illegal) came into the emergency room somewhere in California bleeding, but because of illegals who have been coming in, running up bills and then skipping out on them (causing everyone else to pay for it), and the fact she had no health insurance, they refused her treatment, and let her bleed to death on the hospital floor. This whole thing is affecting EVERYONE in a negative way.


Yes, but I think you'll find that this isn't the only area where the government is inefficient. I know from personal experience.

The same instance with that guy I told you about in NJ. Although he killed to people because INS failed to do their job.


Well I'm sure it does seem that way, but I do think the first thing we have to do is get some of the illegal immigrants out of the country, because they're causing serious problems. And like I said before, we are also not obligated to let everyone into the country, even if they do try to do it the legal way.

It isn't like what is inscribed on the statue of liberty is law. Heck, we don't even follow a lot of what is in our own constitution. For example, police can obtain a search warrant for your house on the basis of probable cause. But in the constitution, it says they have to have probable cause AND the swore testimony of 2 (I believe) witnesses. Not either or, AND. As you can see, this country is in need of reform on many other issues besides just illegal immigration. Plus you said it yourself that everyone is not welcome. I think I can assume that (based on what you said) you wouldn't like the idea of some foreign country emptying their prisons into our country, based on what the statue of liberty said.

But let me ask you, would you let 12,000,000 law-abiding, legally applied immigrants into the country? Even taking into consideration the burden that would become on our economic system by having all of these other people flocking into the country.

Think of it with the analogy of donating to a charity. It's nice to donate to a charity when you have the money. But it's not smart to send ALL of your money to a charity. If you do that, you don't even have the means to support yourself, but a few troubled or disadvantaged people will be able to better at your sacrifice. So then you become a charity case. Our government is obligated to take care of its own citizens before it starts worrying about people from other countries.

I don't really think any one comes to this country thinking they're going to be allowed in based on what it says on the statue of liberty, though. As you said, there has to some kind of limit, either way. Like the lady you were talking about earlier who ogt deported after 10 years (was it?) of living here. Do you know why she was rejected? What if it was because so many people had already come into the country? Not that I'm saying I agree with it taking so long for them to get their denial. Nor do I think that, if indeed they were denied, any of them (including their kids) should be allowed to stay. Technically, they are not U.S. citizens if they are born to parents, none of whom are U.S. citizens.


I fear you may have missed the point of my analogy. I'm saying that you wouldn't give and give to others until you didn't even have the means to support your own self, would you? You wouldn't spend all of your money buying items to send to charities until you didn't even have enough money to pay your own bills would you? Or let's say money was already tight, you wouldn't go out and then spend a substantial sum of your pay check to donate, would you? Because our country is in a similar quandary.


Ah, but that's just it. Why should we go giving jobs away to foreigners if a fair percent of our own citizens don't even have jobs? This goes back to my charity example. Trying to financially support others before yourself. Our government does not have an obligation to those people, because they are not citizens, but they do have a responsibility to their own people. I'm sure if jobs like that exist, the what, 33% of unemployed in this country would like to know about them. Why should we hire our foreigners for less money when some of our own people don't have jobs. You're saying our own citizens should go penniless so that immigrants can have jobs? Then our own citizens become a financial burden on the rest of us, when the entire problem could be averted by just not letting those people in the country to begin with.

it's not a matter of should. it's a matter of trying to be fair to all. at least as fair as possible. the fact that this country was made up entirely of immigrants (except for the natives, but we pretty much killed them off), and now we have this attitude of 'why should we' makes us seem like a bunch of hypocrites.. (granted, we look like hypocrites for a lot of other reasons to the rest of the world too tho but that's another story). technically, after what the early white immigrants did to the indians I dont feel that any of us have a real right to this land. we dont own it. we set up the illusion that we do, but we dont...we dont really own anything. I'm trying not to come from a greedy 'these jobs are MINE, this country is MINE' kind of attitude. I'm sick and tired of money ruling every single decision we make. it's the way civilization is built, and I cant do anything about it, but christ, our values are in the wrong place. they (civilized mentality) make it so that we dont have much of a choice but to be this way and sometimes I hate myself for it. for going along with it.. but if I didnt I'd likely be homeless and so would my children.

the whole thing just makes me mad.

I had a similar thing happen to me. My internet browser just suddenly decided to update itsself when I was right in the middle of typing. Luckily when the updated version came up my text was still there.


I think you might be right. Hey, there's another one for ya. XP


True, true.


I think deportation should apply to everyone who came in illegally. But not really for say, someone who's visa has expired. Deportation shouldn't be something that could break up families. In the instances of families who illegally come in together, they can just as easily be deported together. And like in the instance Calyposophia pointed out, I think EVEYONE in the family should be deported. The children, which seem to be the reason the government is letting any of them stay, are NOT legal citizens. Therefore I don't see why they are being allowed to stay. Sure it sucks that the only life that they've ever known is here, and they're accustomed to this sort of lifestyle, but I blame that situation on the government. if they had adequately done their job to begin with, that situation would not have come about. but at the same time I don't agree with like, some of these Mexican women coming over here illegally to have the babies and then using that as an excuse to stay in the country because the child is supposed to be American by being born here. But the child would not be an American because neither of its parents are American citizens. That same thing applies in the earlier mentioned case.


Agreed, agreed.


I agree. I mean, at least a background check or something on the person to make sure they're not criminals. but it shouldn't take longer to approve the visa, than the visa will actually last. -_-


I totally agree. I hate how we're having to bend over backwards as a society just to accommidate people who aren't even citizens here (because I believe one of the requirements of being a citizen is that you actually have to speak English), because they don't even speak the language. Everthing has to be billingual now, and it only creates more work, and makes things more complicated. Don't go live in a country if you can't speak the language. Because you can't expect society to create special treatment for you (although we seem to be doing just that, creating everything in english and spanish, as if we're encouraging illegals from Mexico and South America, or other people who can't speak enough english to survive and do things like buy groceries or talk to a doctor, to come here).


Yeah, we have a lot of things in writing that we don't really abide by. Like some places in the constitution which still refer to blacks as like 3/4 of a person, or whatever. Hey, if were up to me, we'd give this entire nation back to the Natives, because in my opinion, no one else has any business (or right) being here. But that's a slightly different conversation. I liek to think that my being from several European, black, and native american heritage, I still maintain a fair view. As opposed to a lot of God-fearing, fight to the death, white-bred americans who don't like to admit that their ancestors were murderous thieves, and that this country is founded on just about EVERYTHING that is illegal in its own society. The thing that really chaps my a** about that is how they try to glorify those people and make them seem to great. And they try to white-wash their atrocities in history books by either excluding the details, or trying to minimize them. Saying things like they "found" or "settles" or "claimed some place". Failing to mention all the people they had to kick off or kill that place in order to do that. XD What do you think would happen if someone had tried to do the same thing to Europe? Although I think we've already seen this somewhat demonstrated by invasions of European countries by other European countries. Notice how Germany "INVADED" most of Europe in the second world war, not "settled", or "claimed"?


I don't really think that would be the case though if we didn't have so many illegal immigrants from those countries here, doing the things we've mentioned.


Yes, but Mexico has their fare share here too. I've heard that they actually have a lot of illegals using the Mexican boarder to cross over from all different countries. Like these people I heard about who tracked a group of Al Qaeda (sp?) through the Mexican boarder.

What about fair to the people that are already here? It's not fair to them that they shouldn't have jobs, but some person who moves here to suck money out of the economy and send it back to another country does? What about fair to the native Americans. As far as I'm concerned, we're ALL illegal immigrants (aside form the natives).


Woah woah woah. I as an individual don't think I am hypocritical about being insensitive to immigrants, because I am also insensitive to people already here. But yes, the majority of our population who believe they have some right to be here, as if they aren't 600th generation illegal immigrants, ARE hypocrites. You know, when I say something like that, people usually say something like "well that was my ancestors, and that was several hundred years ago. No body who even did any of that is still alive." I say: As long as you perpetuate the crime, you're just a guilty as the people who originally committed it.


Agreed. The thing that makes me mad is that a lot of native Americans are still living in poverty on reservations that are in shitty parts of the country. Contrary to what some people believe, not every native American owns a casino. -_- That's like saying every white person is as rich as Bill Gates.


I know what you mean. I hate so many things about this country and the way it is and has been run. I think of it like this: My ancestors were native americans who were shat on by the Europeans who came over here with guns, and thought that gave them some sort of right to be here. They continue to be shat on to this day by the situations a lot of them have been forced into, and are often ignored. Some of my other ancestors were africans who were kidnapped and forced into slaves, and then looked upon with disgust as if they were sub human. And they acted as if the Africans have no right to be here, when the white people are the ones who crought them here to being with. They have pretty much been shat on for the last 400 years (although less that it used to be within the last 30 or so). Some of my white ancestors were English and were part of the original colony in Georgia that was a debttor's prison. They were shat on by other white people because the system they were in caused them to be poor. Another of my ancestors were Irish immigrants (since the early 1900s), and they were also shat on by other white people for being Irish. What exactly do I have to be thankful for? What has this country done, but continually shat on my ancestors? That is what it is FOUNDED upon, the mistreatment of other people, a lot of whom I just happened to be composed of.

the whole thing just makes me mad.
you and me both