Welcome to Gaia! ::

The Physics and Mathematics Guild

Back to Guilds

 

Tags: physics, mathematics, science, universe 

Reply The Physics and Mathematics Guild
Help with Langrangian mechanics

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

mynabyrd

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:44 pm


Hello all! I need help with a Lagrangian dynamics problem -- here it is:

A wedge of mass M and angle [alpha] slides freely on a horizontal plane. A particle of mass m moves freely on the wedge. Determine the motion of the particle as well as that of the wedge.

Here is as far as I've gotten:

We can write the position of the mass m as

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

where l is the length of the hypotenuse of the wedge that the mass is sliding on.

Thus, the kinetic energy of the mass m is equal to

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

The potential energy is equal to

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Therefore, the Lagrangian can be written as

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Thanks.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:11 pm


Have you tried plugging your Lagrangian into the Lagrange equation? You should get equations of motion out.

A Lost Iguana
Crew

Aged Pants

9,100 Points
  • Millionaire 200
  • Profitable 100
  • Money Never Sleeps 200

Layra-chan
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:04 pm


You seem to be missing some time units in your kinetic energy equation.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:57 am


bit188
Hello all! I need help with a Lagrangian dynamics problem -- here it is:

A wedge of mass M and angle [alpha] slides freely on a horizontal plane. A particle of mass m moves freely on the wedge. Determine the motion of the particle as well as that of the wedge.

Here is as far as I've gotten:

We can write the position of the mass m as

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

where l is the length of the hypotenuse of the wedge that the mass is sliding on.

Thus, the kinetic energy of the mass m is equal to

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

The potential energy is equal to

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Therefore, the Lagrangian can be written as

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Thanks.


Are you looking for the equation of motion?

I'll say right now that your lagrangian isn't correct. You're differentiating x and y with respect to alpha. You should be differentiating them with respect to t.

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

But even if we did this we'd get the wrong Kinetic energy. The problem is with your x and y components. Remember that the block slides, so you've only given their positions at t = 0. You have to redefine L as the distance along the hypotenuse between the mass and the thin end of the wedge. And also remember that the wedge itself slides, which possibly makes the issue of degrees of freedom more complicated.

These are the type of questions my students often have to deal with (I'm tutoring (for a ridiculous hourly rate) at the moment 'til I decide what postgrad I want to undertake). So I'll head for now, but if yer still having problems with this question I'll walk you through it tomorrow.

Morberticus


Morberticus

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:19 pm


Sorry for the delayed reply


I'll introduce some simple notation you're probably already aware of. Namely

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Kay, we know that the kinetic energy equals

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Potential energy equals

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

And our lagrangian equals

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

So now we consider the euler-lagrange equation

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

So

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

and

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

so plugging them into our equation we get

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.


[edit]- Argh I forgot the wedge slides as well. I'll correct it soon as I get the chance.
Reply
The Physics and Mathematics Guild

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum