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Deed versus Creed

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Dis Domnu

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:58 pm


Which is more important, do you think, the action or the thought? Can a person be good if they believe in "good" (whatever you want to call good) things, but take no actions? Can a person be good if they act in a way beneficial to mankind, out of selfish motivations (say, a scientist finding a cure to AIDs with the intent to earn a profit from governments that would buy it)?

Can one be a good Jew if he/she believes in G-d, and the Commandments, but does not act on them? Can someone be a good Jew if he/she does not have concrete faith, but follows the Commandments?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:57 pm


It's all circumstanial.

If someone would find a cure for AIDs simply because they want to make money, I doubt they'd get far, but I understand what you're saying. People really just have to find out what's best for them. What's best for you isn't always universal. The most logical thing is to just be moral...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:43 am


Actions tell us a person's thoughts. Hashem knows the heart, but the actions are what truly demonstrate what the heart ha slearned.

You know that TV commercial that has a young kid starving to death because someone "almost" gave to charity? That person had a thought in their heart, "I should give. I want to be generous. I want to help save a life." But because their actions didn't follow their thoughts, that kid starved and possibly died. Lofty thoughts are great to have, but unless they inspire action, they are pretty much worthless on a practical level.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:46 am


So, what about the other side of it? Is the scientist who creates a cure for AIDs to get rich a good person?

Dis Domnu


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:31 pm


I'd say that the person who creates an AIDS cure or prevention out of a desire to get rich COULD be a good person or a bad person, but I wouldn't want to base the judgment on just one task that they completed. That's a good action, for a selfish reason. This is an important lesson in Judaism, though: the yetzer ha-ra ('evil' inclination) can be made to serve Hashem and the world, too. Not only the yetzer ha-tov ('good' inclination) should serve Hashem and the world.

Example#1: The sexual urge is controlled by the yetzer hara. It's a self-serving impulse, the desire for pleasure and the desire for intimacy. But is it evil? Only if you take without asking and without giving. The yetzer hara can serve itself by urging the individual to Go Out And Get Some Sex. The individual can respond by either:

1. Raping someone. This would be evil (if anyone is actually in doubt) because it serves the self while harming another.

2. Having casual sex. This isn't inherently evil, but if one's partner hopes for love and doesn't get it and is disappointed/hurt by that, then it isn't good, either.

3. Masturbating. This isn't evil or good. It serves the self, but it doesn't harm anyone else.

4. Having intimacy with one's life partner as an expression of love and intimate affection. This is good. It serves the self, but it also serves another.

Example #2: Eating is also controlled by the yetzeir hara, which should actually be translated as the "self-directed impulse." Eating can either be what keeps us alive, or what brings people together socially; or it can be what causes us physical harm through destroying our health and making us feel sick and stuffed. The desire for a full mouth can be honored by eating what's healthy, and in healthy amounts, or it can be taken too far by eating what's unhealthy, or in unhealthy amounts.

Example #3: Money earning. You can earn money by legal, moral means or by illegal, immoral means. You can earn money for the purpose of paying your bills and supporting your family, or you can earn it for the purpose of establishing power or status over other individuals.

Actions without intentions aren't inherently good or evil, but they do have good or bad consequences. Intentions without actions, though, are dead entirely. The whole purpose of a thought is that it eventually inspires action (or at least a conversation with someone else who'll take action because of what you said).
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:00 pm


Divash
Actions tell us a person's thoughts. Hashem knows the heart, but the actions are what truly demonstrate what the heart ha slearned.

You know that TV commercial that has a young kid starving to death because someone "almost" gave to charity? That person had a thought in their heart, "I should give. I want to be generous. I want to help save a life." But because their actions didn't follow their thoughts, that kid starved and possibly died. Lofty thoughts are great to have, but unless they inspire action, they are pretty much worthless on a practical level.

I agree, but it's a bit of everything. I can't just choose having a good intention or a good action, as both are important.

On the one hand, somebody once told me that you see how a person really is when they're alone, with nobody there to tell them not to do something. This I actually agree with- your actions speak louder than words.

However, you might end up doing something nice, but have horrible intentions.

EDIT: Just go with what Divash said; she phrased it infinitely better. xp

darkphoenix1247
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Dis Domnu

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:42 pm


Thanks for the answers. Cleared up the minor moral dilemma for me.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:54 am


Action is more important of faith. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King said that people that are not stoping the spred of Evil are if fact helping it. The is said to have Said that "I would not mind if they had forsaken me if they had not forsaken my Book

Severus-snape-the-second

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