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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:58 am
Hello fellow members! I have a long time to log in because i had my appendix cut... It was kinda serious because the disease was a bit prolonged so,the appendix was stuck into the intestines and the doctor needed to rip out the whole appendix....anyway,I didn't die!
I found some roman foods,and I thought it would be good to post them... Everything is from wikipedia...
Starter------------------------------------------------------------------------- pulses such as fava beans, chick peas, peas and lupins, although these were only appreciated by peasants, smiths, legionnaires and gladiators; only lentils imported from Egypt were liked by the upper class. several kinds of cabbage were usually enjoyed with vinegar, kale was cooked in saltpetre, and both the green and the white parts of chard were used. the leaves of many shrubs and weeds were cooked to a mush and strongly spiced; examples are elder, mallow, orache, fenugreek, nettles and sorrel. pickled fruit and vegetables such as olives, chicory, cardoons, mallows, broccoli, asparagus, artichokes, leeks, carrots, turnips, parsnips, beets, peas, green beans, radishes, cauliflower, lettuces and field greens, onions, squash, cucumbers, fennel, melons, capers and cress were called acetaria and were thought to be appetising. Spinach was not known until the 9th century. Mushrooms, such as boletus, field mushroom and truffles. Stewed and salted snails, raw or cooked clams, sea urchins and small fish After the Republican period, light meat dishes were also served as starters. One example is dormice, which were bred in special enclosures called gliaria before being fattened-up in clay pots. Small birds like thrushes were also served.
Meals--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Beef, though not very popular as cattle were working animals, used for such tasks as ploughing or pulling carts, so that their meat was usually very tough and had to be cooked for a long time to make it edible. Even calf meat was not popular; only a few recipes for it are known. Pork was the most usual and best liked meat. All parts of the pig were eaten, and more unusual parts like the breasts and uterus of young sows were considered delicacies. Wild boar were also bred and fattened before slaughtering. Geese were bred and sometimes fattened. The technique of force-feeding was already known, and the liver of force-fed geese was a special delicacy, as it is today. Chicken was more expensive than duck. Other birds like peacocks and swans were eaten on special occasions. Capons and poulards (spayed hens) were considered special delicacies. In 161 BCE, the consul C. Fannius prohibited the consumption of poulards, though the ban was ignored. Sausages, farcimen, were made of beef and pork according to an astonishing diversity of recipes and types. Particularly widespread was the botulus, a blood sausage which was sold on the streets. The most popular type of sausage was the lucanica, a short, fat, rustic pork sausage, the recipe for which is still used today in Italy and other parts of the world. Also the Portuguese and Brazilian linguiƧa is one of the heirs of this Roman sausage. For special effects, whole pigs were stuffed with sausages and fruit, roasted and then served on their feet. When cut the sausages would spill from the animal like entrails. Such a pig was called a porcus Troianus ("Trojan pig"), a humorous reference to the Trojan Horse. Hares and rabbits were bred, the former with little success, making them as much as four times more expensive than rabbits. Hares therefore were regarded as a luxury; shoulder of hare was especially favoured. Newborn rabbits or rabbit fetuses, known as laurices, were considered a delicacy. Fish was served only in later periods, and it remained more expensive than simpler meat types. Breeding was attempted in freshwater and saltwater ponds, but some kinds of fish could not be fattened in captivity. Among these was the most popular, mullus, the goatfish. At a certain time this fish was considered the epitome of luxury, above all because its scales exhibit a bright red colour when it dies out of water. For this reason these fish were occasionally allowed to die slowly at the table. There even was a recipe where this would take place in garum, in the sauce. At the beginning of the imperial era, however, this custom suddenly came to an end, which is why mullus in the feast of Trimalchio (see the Satyricon) could be shown as a characteristic of the parvenu, who bores his guests with an unfashionable display of dying fish.
There were no side dishes or accompaniments in today's sense, although bread was consumed by all classes following the introduction of wheat. Thereafter only the poorest, with no access to an oven, had to continue eating puls. Bread, which existed in a large number of different varieties, quickly became exceptionally popular and public bakeries were established in Rome from 270 CE.
Garum, also known as liquamen, was the universal sauce added to everything. It was prepared by subjecting salted fish, in particular mackerel intestines, to a very slow thermal process. Over the course of two to three months, in an enzymatic process stimulated by heating, usually by exposure to the sun, the protein-laden fish parts decomposed almost entirely. The resulting mass was then filtered and the liquid traded as garum, the remaining solids as alec - a kind of savoury spread. Because of the smell it produced, the production of garum within the city was banned. Garum, supplied in small sealed amphorae, was used throughout the Empire and totally replaced salt as a condiment. Today similar sauces are produced in Thailand and Vietnam, usually sold abroad under the description "fish sauce", or nam pla.
Spices, especially pepper, but hundreds of other kinds too, were imported on a large scale and used copiously. One very popular spice was silphium; however, as it could not be cultivated it finally became extinct through overcropping of the wild plant. The inherent flavours of vegetables and meat were completely masked by the heavy use of garum and other seasonings. It was considered an indication of the highest achievement in culinary art if a gourmet could tell neither by sight, nor smell, nor taste what the ingredients of a dish were.
----------------------Did you read about Garum?------------------------------ ----------------------It's disgusting........---------------------------------------
Deserts mrgreen -------------------------------------------------------------
Among fruits, grapes were the most preferred. The Romans distinguished between grapes for wine-making and grapes as food. Raisins were also produced. After grapes, figs and dates played a major part and pomegranates were eaten in many varieties. Quinces, various types of apples, apricots, peaches, cherries, pears, plums, currants, strawberries and melons were grown. The Romans ate walnuts, hazelnuts, almonds, chestnuts and pine nuts. Roman bakers were famous for the many varieties of breads, rolls, fruit tarts, sweet buns and cakes. Unfortunately we have almost none of the recipes. crying
Cold clams and oysters (which were bred on a large scale), which were originally dessert dishes, later became starters.
Cakes, made of wheat and usually soaked in honey, played a big part. Certain kinds of nuts were also available, and they were thrown at festivals much as sweets are today.
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:45 am
Holy Mackerel, Thanasis! eek I wondered why I hadn't had anything from you lately! I hope you're recovering quickly! (You must be, since you're reading about Roman food in Wiki ... razz )
I have a cookbook that disputes the "fermented fish-guts" theory of garum. The author says that whole small fish were used and that it was by no means as gross as it's made to sound. I'll try to remember to look up the exact passage. The book, by the way, is interesting as the author takes recipes from Apicius, the only author from ancient times we have who gives actual recipes, and translates them into modern terms. Oh, and you can also read the Deipnosophistae by Athenaeus of Naucratis. He doesn't give recipes, but the work is a huge collection of quotes from Greek plays about food and wine and dinners and eating.
The last point, that food in ancient times was heavily disguised, is well taken. This is probably because of their limited ability to preserve perishable foods. Everything probably tasted a little ... "off." So they poured on the sauces to cover that up. I suspect that a modern person visiting ancient times would lose a good deal of weight at first.
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:21 am
DeeFarnham Holy Mackerel, Thanasis! eek I wondered why I hadn't had anything from you lately! I hope you're recovering quickly! (You must be, since you're reading about Roman food in Wiki ... razz ) I have a cookbook that disputes the "fermented fish-guts" theory of garum. The author says that whole small fish were used and that it was by no means as gross as it's made to sound. I'll try to remember to look up the exact passage. The book, by the way, is interesting as the author takes recipes from Apicius, the only author from ancient times we have who gives actual recipes, and translates them into modern terms. Oh, and you can also read the Deipnosophistae by Athenaeus of Naucratis. He doesn't give recipes, but the work is a huge collection of quotes from Greek plays about food and wine and dinners and eating. The last point, that food in ancient times was heavily disguised, is well taken. This is probably because of their limited ability to preserve perishable foods. Everything probably tasted a little ... "off." So they poured on the sauces to cover that up. I suspect that a modern person visiting ancient times would lose a good deal of weight at first. xp I think i'm going to throw up... Deipnosophistai?That is translated as...dinner philosophists or something! blaugh Anyway,thanks for the info^^
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:22 am
Amandeus DeeFarnham Holy Mackerel, Thanasis! eek I wondered why I hadn't had anything from you lately! I hope you're recovering quickly! (You must be, since you're reading about Roman food in Wiki ... razz ) I have a cookbook that disputes the "fermented fish-guts" theory of garum. The author says that whole small fish were used and that it was by no means as gross as it's made to sound. I'll try to remember to look up the exact passage. The book, by the way, is interesting as the author takes recipes from Apicius, the only author from ancient times we have who gives actual recipes, and translates them into modern terms. Oh, and you can also read the Deipnosophistae by Athenaeus of Naucratis. He doesn't give recipes, but the work is a huge collection of quotes from Greek plays about food and wine and dinners and eating. The last point, that food in ancient times was heavily disguised, is well taken. This is probably because of their limited ability to preserve perishable foods. Everything probably tasted a little ... "off." So they poured on the sauces to cover that up. I suspect that a modern person visiting ancient times would lose a good deal of weight at first. xp I think i'm going to throw up... Deipnosophistai?That is translated as...dinner philosophists or something! blaugh Anyway,thanks for the info^^ The "Dinner Philosophers," yes, exactly! Or I've seen it translated as "Philosophers at Dinner," too. I'm glad to see the language hasn't changed too much. wink
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:28 am
DeeFarnham Amandeus DeeFarnham Holy Mackerel, Thanasis! eek I wondered why I hadn't had anything from you lately! I hope you're recovering quickly! (You must be, since you're reading about Roman food in Wiki ... razz ) I have a cookbook that disputes the "fermented fish-guts" theory of garum. The author says that whole small fish were used and that it was by no means as gross as it's made to sound. I'll try to remember to look up the exact passage. The book, by the way, is interesting as the author takes recipes from Apicius, the only author from ancient times we have who gives actual recipes, and translates them into modern terms. Oh, and you can also read the Deipnosophistae by Athenaeus of Naucratis. He doesn't give recipes, but the work is a huge collection of quotes from Greek plays about food and wine and dinners and eating. The last point, that food in ancient times was heavily disguised, is well taken. This is probably because of their limited ability to preserve perishable foods. Everything probably tasted a little ... "off." So they poured on the sauces to cover that up. I suspect that a modern person visiting ancient times would lose a good deal of weight at first. xp I think i'm going to throw up... Deipnosophistai?That is translated as...dinner philosophists or something! blaugh Anyway,thanks for the info^^ The "Dinner Philosophers," yes, exactly! Or I've seen it translated as "Philosophers at Dinner," too. I'm glad to see the language hasn't changed too much. wink Oh,well,it changed a bit.... For example,the british word ''idiot'',comed from the greek word ''idiotis'',who is the one who doesn't participate in the democratic auctions in ancient greece(agora). Pericles thought that such people were very stupid,so now the word idiot has a negative meaning...^^
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:44 pm
If you're wanting to explore this culinary path, you can buy a variant of garum from Italy. I'll caution you that it is expensive: http://www.zingermans.com/Product.aspx?category=&productid=p-colI've ordered a bottle of the stuff that I intend on putting on some pizza at the very least. My more ambitious project is to acquire small rodents of some type or another to experiment on for recreating the Roman recipe for glires (dormice). Since Silphium is extinct, you may want to try something like rocket or arugula. They were valued by the Romans for their, how do we say, randier properties wink
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:38 pm
Charleeee! I think we know each other from ED, a few times. I was going by SullaFelix wink But I've been using this account more lately, so I joined this guild with it. (I have about three accounts I use and dress regularly... this one, Brynn Marcus, and SullaFelix.) I think I actually met Dee over there as Sulla as well! Imagine that.
But I digress!
We're going to be having a Roman-style orgy potluck for my Latin class again, and I have to bring a dish. But which to bring! I was rather fond of lamb meatballs but... I've really never cooked before in my life. I can make Ramen pretty well. XDD What do you guys think?
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:45 pm
Hey! I certainly remember you as SF smile
I assume you want something with a patrician kick?
What is your price range? Patrician food was mostly about spectacle and outlandishness. Aside from the lighter things like fruits and salads, you're talking about things like oysters, foie gras, escargot, etc. If you're using a generic meat item, you want to make it pork like the OP mentioned. This goes for generally everywhere. Contrary to the much-repeated falsehood, the legions didn't operate on a strictly vegetarian diet, and they would certainly augment their usual hard-tack and porridge with pork.
Keep in mind that you don't want to use tomatoes, rice, pasta, any of that stuff. None would have been in a Roman dish.
Lemons might be a good idea. Romans thought them to be a curiosity.
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:02 pm
Well, we've been reading Petronius' Satyricon, which is empire time, under Nero, before Pompeii happened and all that. It is supposedly one of the best sources for Roman dining we have; the only problem is it's satire. I am certainly not going to cook a pig stuffed with cooked sausages and blood puddings to be gutted out of her at dinner. XDD
My price range = college student, but I'm willing to bend that. I'm more looking for something easy, yet different... I'm allergic to oysters so I'd never do those >.< and I'm not that fond of pork. (Though at my last banquet there was a very good ham in a brandy sauce.) I wonder if squash would be good. Or some kind of apple salad.
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