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 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:56 pm
Yesterday and today my AP English class discussed Truth. It was interesting and I decided to bring the questions we were asked back here to see what y'all had to say.
What is truth?
Is truth relavent or absolute?
What is the relationship between language and truth?
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:09 pm
Truth is the known facts from a person, without manipulation for a better or sometimes worse outcome than what facts may create in each situation it is required.
Truth is dependent upon the source of knowledge the individual possesses to what could be true fact or opinion based.
I do not see relevance in the last question, since language is just communication based on location and upbringing.
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:56 pm
Curticay of dictionary.com or whtever the site's name is:
Truth: 1. the true or actual state of a matter
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence.
6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
8. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life.
9. agreement with a standard or original.
10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
11. Archaic. fidelity or constancy.
12. in truth, in reality; in fact; actually
Truth is relative for it differs from person to person. People all have different definitions of truth. During class out of 30 somehting students, not one person gave the same definition of truth. I believe that it is that Jesus was the Christ. But there are billions who do not believe that. The beliefs of people shape what they believe to be true. Truth is belief. truth is the ultimate oxymoron. Truth is absolutely relative. Even history which is comprised of facts is realtive for winners write history. Check history books in our schools. It's white people history. That sounds bad I know but it is. It is written from our side of things, from the sides of things of the ancestors or our forefathers. It's relative.
That's the condensed version of my answer in class XD
Hehe, I know the relationship between language and truth. But I wanna see if someone else hits it before I tell.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:44 pm
Truth is whatever you think it is. And based on that, truth is totally relevant to your point of view and your light of thinking (based on your surroundings and experiences). just like truth its self, the relationship between truth and language is totally dependent upon what you think is the actual 'relationship' between the two. For instance, I think language is related to truth in the way that we use it as a tool to convey our viewpoints in a way that other people can grasp (that can be confirmed that we're even having this conversation about truth).
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:43 pm
Drak of Paradise I do not see relevance in the last question, since language is just communication based on location and upbringing. But cannot one's truth be based upon their location and upbringing? namida_no_chi just like truth its self, the relationship between truth and language is totally dependent upon what you think is the actual 'relationship' between the two. For instance, I think language is related to truth in the way that we use it as a tool to convey our viewpoints in a way that other people can grasp (that can be confirmed that we're even having this conversation about truth). exactly. There are severeal relationships between the two. Which one one sees depends on the person.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:54 pm
scientific truth is objective. but everything else, or just about everything else concerning truth is subjective. dependent mainly on our perceptions. there is nothing outside ourselves that everyone views or experiences exactly the same way. and concerning things like religion, the origins of the universe, and what happens beyond death we cannot know. even if there is a universal truth, we cant know what it is, so our beliefs when it comes to things like that could be considered as 'personal truths' (which to me is a deep seated opinion based on ones feelings), even if not fact.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:41 pm
Wouldn't that be culture, not language?
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:13 pm
Drak of Paradise Wouldn't that be culture, not language? ok I'm confused.... who mentioned 'language'? am I missing something?
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:46 am
I've always wondered about this.
Is truth what people tell us it is, or is there really no truth and everything is just opinion? What about the sky being blue. That's fact. That's truth, isn't it? Or is it just a trick of the eye; how do we know for sure?
One thing I could seriously spend all day thinking about is this: is evil a fact or an opinion? Take Adolf Hitler for example, some people thought he was a great person, but most people think of him as a crazed tyrant. So, Hitler is evil: fact or opinion? In my opinion, it's a fact.
"Only one thing is certain, and that's that nothing is certain."
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:23 am
Sayer of the Truth I've always wondered about this. Is truth what people tell us it is, or is there really no truth and everything is just opinion? What about the sky being blue. That's fact. That's truth, isn't it? Or is it just a trick of the eye; how do we know for sure? One thing I could seriously spend all day thinking about is this: is evil a fact or an opinion? Take Adolf Hitler for example, some people thought he was a great person, but most people think of him as a crazed tyrant. So, Hitler is evil: fact or opinion? In my opinion, it's a fact. "Only one thing is certain, and that's that nothing is certain." it is a fact, that the sky on a clear day looks blue, but if you could go up in a balloon and bottle a bit of air from way up in the sky and bring it down to earth with you it would not be blue inside the bottle, but clear. the same with the ocean.. sometimes it looks blue and sometimes it looks green, but cup a bit of ocean water in your hands and its neither...it also is clear. a polar bear looks like it has white fur does it not? the truth is, it's fur is opaque.. each strand is hollow and clear. it only looks white when grouped all together. I feel that good and evil are relative as well. most people view hitler as having been an evil man, but those who followed him, even loved him (including his dog) didnt view him as such. if a hungry wolf snuck into a village and stole some chickens from a farm to bring back to her hungry cubs, or (lets bring this closer to home here) stole a small child who wandered too far away to feed her cubs the villagers would view this wolf as evil and hunt it down (likely they'd hunt every last wolf down they could find for this). but to the wolfs cubs, its good because she brought them back nourishment. it's all relative to the perspective one is coming from. the truth is, I think.. we create our own realities. in buddhism, there is a way to lift the veil, so to speak... but it concerns being able to let go of your preconceived notions on what and how things are. there's more to it, but this isnt the place for a discussion on buddhism. I'm only starting to learn the ways myself. smile
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:11 pm
Calypsophia Sayer of the Truth I've always wondered about this. Is truth what people tell us it is, or is there really no truth and everything is just opinion? What about the sky being blue. That's fact. That's truth, isn't it? Or is it just a trick of the eye; how do we know for sure? One thing I could seriously spend all day thinking about is this: is evil a fact or an opinion? Take Adolf Hitler for example, some people thought he was a great person, but most people think of him as a crazed tyrant. So, Hitler is evil: fact or opinion? In my opinion, it's a fact. "Only one thing is certain, and that's that nothing is certain." it is a fact, that the sky on a clear day looks blue, but if you could go up in a balloon and bottle a bit of air from way up in the sky and bring it down to earth with you it would not be blue inside the bottle, but clear. the same with the ocean.. sometimes it looks blue and sometimes it looks green, but cup a bit of ocean water in your hands and its neither...it also is clear. a polar bear looks like it has white fur does it not? the truth is, it's fur is opaque.. each strand is hollow and clear. it only looks white when grouped all together. I feel that good and evil are relative as well. most people view hitler as having been an evil man, but those who followed him, even loved him (including his dog) didnt view him as such. if a hungry wolf snuck into a village and stole some chickens from a farm to bring back to her hungry cubs, or (lets bring this closer to home here) stole a small child who wandered too far away to feed her cubs the villagers would view this wolf as evil and hunt it down (likely they'd hunt every last wolf down they could find for this). but to the wolfs cubs, its good because she brought them back nourishment. it's all relative to the perspective one is coming from. the truth is, I think.. we create our own realities. in buddhism, there is a way to lift the veil, so to speak... but it concerns being able to let go of your preconceived notions on what and how things are. there's more to it, but this isnt the place for a discussion on buddhism. I'm only starting to learn the ways myself. smile I agree. Sayer of the Truth, do you think "hitler is evil" is a fact because of your opinion of the things he did? Or perhaps because that is the more popular version of the way people see him now, that is the majority opinion. Have you ever considered that the whole reason your opinion that the things that he did were evil is based on the way you were raised to think. It is from a biased stand point. What if you were raised to think that the things hitler did were good, or what if most of the people in the world thought that he was a good man instead of the other way around. When it comes down to it, you can't really define evil, so any opinions about something being evil cannot be fact. They can only be opinion. I'm sure hindu people would think you are evil for eating a hamburger. Does that mean that you are? Would eating a beef burger put you on the same level as Adolph Hitler? Or is it just an opinion? Because in your opinion, people aren't evil just because they ate some cow. Who is right? No one is, because "evil" is relative. Plus your last statement about hitler was a paradox: "My opinion is that it's fact"
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:12 pm
Calypsophia it is a fact, that the sky on a clear day looks blue, but if you could go up in a balloon and bottle a bit of air from way up in the sky and bring it down to earth with you it would not be blue inside the bottle, but clear. I just couldn't pass this up in a topic about truth, sorry sweatdrop Pure water IS actually blue. You just need a whole hellovalot of it to tell. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~etrnsfer/water.htm#blueBut back on topic, depends on what truth you mean, which I suppose then ultimately it would be subjective since our own language doesn't really differentiate. Scientific law is taken as unshakable truth, in as much so as we've already tested it. Quite frankly I wouldn't put it past some scientist in the next 100 years or so to completely redefine the law of gravity or any other 'truths'. Truth in civilization is completely subjective, with whatever majority party defining society's morals as the current truth, and the rest must be beholden to it to function with the others. Truth as perceived individually as compared to truth as perceived by 'society'... meh, too tired to go there right now.
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:01 pm
Firrerreo Calypsophia it is a fact, that the sky on a clear day looks blue, but if you could go up in a balloon and bottle a bit of air from way up in the sky and bring it down to earth with you it would not be blue inside the bottle, but clear. I just couldn't pass this up in a topic about truth, sorry sweatdrop Pure water IS actually blue. You just need a whole hellovalot of it to tell. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~etrnsfer/water.htm#blueBut back on topic, depends on what truth you mean, which I suppose then ultimately it would be subjective since our own language doesn't really differentiate. Scientific law is taken as unshakable truth, in as much so as we've already tested it. Quite frankly I wouldn't put it past some scientist in the next 100 years or so to completely redefine the law of gravity or any other 'truths'. Truth in civilization is completely subjective, with whatever majority party defining society's morals as the current truth, and the rest must be beholden to it to function with the others. Truth as perceived individually as compared to truth as perceived by 'society'... meh, too tired to go there right now. when taken little by little it is not blue, and that was my point. but either way you look at it.. your way or mine.. it's an illusion (it's either really blue and only looks clear in small amounts, or really clear and looks blue in large amounts). most truths are relative in that way.
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:44 pm
Calypsophia Firrerreo Calypsophia it is a fact, that the sky on a clear day looks blue, but if you could go up in a balloon and bottle a bit of air from way up in the sky and bring it down to earth with you it would not be blue inside the bottle, but clear. I just couldn't pass this up in a topic about truth, sorry sweatdrop Pure water IS actually blue. You just need a whole hellovalot of it to tell. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~etrnsfer/water.htm#blueBut back on topic, depends on what truth you mean, which I suppose then ultimately it would be subjective since our own language doesn't really differentiate. Scientific law is taken as unshakable truth, in as much so as we've already tested it. Quite frankly I wouldn't put it past some scientist in the next 100 years or so to completely redefine the law of gravity or any other 'truths'. Truth in civilization is completely subjective, with whatever majority party defining society's morals as the current truth, and the rest must be beholden to it to function with the others. Truth as perceived individually as compared to truth as perceived by 'society'... meh, too tired to go there right now. when taken little by little it is not blue, and that was my point. but either way you look at it.. your way or mine.. it's an illusion (it's either really blue and only looks clear in small amounts, or really clear and looks blue in large amounts). most truths are relative in that way.
Just whether people believe it is.
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:00 am
Shoes.in.the.Sunshine Calypsophia Firrerreo Calypsophia it is a fact, that the sky on a clear day looks blue, but if you could go up in a balloon and bottle a bit of air from way up in the sky and bring it down to earth with you it would not be blue inside the bottle, but clear. I just couldn't pass this up in a topic about truth, sorry sweatdrop Pure water IS actually blue. You just need a whole hellovalot of it to tell. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~etrnsfer/water.htm#blueBut back on topic, depends on what truth you mean, which I suppose then ultimately it would be subjective since our own language doesn't really differentiate. Scientific law is taken as unshakable truth, in as much so as we've already tested it. Quite frankly I wouldn't put it past some scientist in the next 100 years or so to completely redefine the law of gravity or any other 'truths'. Truth in civilization is completely subjective, with whatever majority party defining society's morals as the current truth, and the rest must be beholden to it to function with the others. Truth as perceived individually as compared to truth as perceived by 'society'... meh, too tired to go there right now. when taken little by little it is not blue, and that was my point. but either way you look at it.. your way or mine.. it's an illusion (it's either really blue and only looks clear in small amounts, or really clear and looks blue in large amounts). most truths are relative in that way.
Just whether people believe it is.I think that's the point she was getting at.
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