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Internet Ministers and Weddings

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Should internet ordination of ministers be allowed?
  Yes, for everyone reguardless of the normal qualifications.
  Yes, but only if they meet the same qualifications as normal ministers.
  No. Leave it to the qualified clergymen.
  Other. (please post)
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A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:45 pm


I am an ordained minister. I became ordained by filling out a form on the Universal Life Church website two years ago. However, I have never performed any ministerial deeds, other than offering spiritual advice and leading a simple ritual or two. I've never officiated at a wedding, even though I was asked to once.

The reason I didn't do the wedding was because I wasn't sure whether or not it would have been seen as valid. It seems that since more and more people are becoming ministers over the internet, several states are becoming more wary about the signature on the certificate. In some states, weddings performed by internet ministers aren't even valid. This can lead to trouble years down the line when someone tries to collect life insurance or social security payments.

The commonly accepted guidelines for ordaining a minister are that one must be ordained by someone who is already an established minister, and that one must be a leader of an established congregation that meets regularly. The Universal Life Church offers ordination to anyone, whether they meet these guidelines or not, because they believe in total religious freedom, and that anyone should be able to make important religions decisions for themselves.

The question at hand seems to be one of separation of Church and State. The only ministerial duty that has laws governing it is that of marriage. In the eyes of many, marriage is a very spiritual occasion, though for the most part, marriage laws are not disputed. In case someone wants to be married by a minister ordained online, the Universal Life Church has posted a list of state marriage laws here.

What are your views on internet ministers? What are your views on marriage laws? Should an internet minister be able to perform a legal wedding?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:50 pm


My views on becoming ordained over the internet can all be summed up by this one simple card, a copy of which I carry in my wallet:

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.


Note the fine print.

A Murder of Angels
Captain


GameAngel64

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:11 pm


Wow. Just wow. I went to that site and it was just [amazing]. They offer a number of religious certificates, among them one for Jedi Knight. Nice idea in theory, but it seems more likely to attract jokesters than spiritual devotees.

EDIT: I did some research (as I'm ever so prone to do), and this site contends that the site you linked to is not quite legitimate, or at least is seeking to mislead people. Of course, the further down the "rabbit hole" I go, perhaps the real liar will appear, but it's worth checking out the link I posted.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:33 am


Thanks for pointing out that the Universal Life Monastery is separate from the Universal Life Church. While the latter can claim that the former isn't fully legit, I'm sure the former can just as easily make similar claims about the latter.

In any case, there exist dozens upon dozens of sites offering internet ordination. The Universal Life Church (whether the real one, or the monastery) simply happens to be the most well known one. This article, which inspired me to start this topic, lists several.

A Murder of Angels
Captain


GameAngel64

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:27 am


Yeah, I saw a lot of different ordination sites myself while I searched around. Very interesting stuff. As far as your poll goes, I voted that anyone should be able to become ordained, because I guess I just don't feel very strongly about the matter. However, I think it's likely enough that people who go through a seminary are more prone to be truly dedicated to their spirituality, or are at least really serious about doing the ministry, whereas those who are ordained at these websites maybe do it for symbolic reasons, on a lark, or as a joke, and not necessarily for the sake of practicing. Furthermore, I'm sure there are people who do it for strictly business reasons.

That being said, I guess an online ordination is what each person makes of it.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:21 am


I support the ordinations done by this group for one reason in prime.

Alternative, newer, and smaller religious movements have difficulty getting ordained ministers by the conventional means. They won't neccesarily have any other established ministers, they won't neccesarily have a regularly meeting congregation.

To me, even if someone is ordained, it doesn't make them truly clergy. Clergy is something that happens to you and that you become all on your own, not something given to you by a degree or a title. Being clergy has to do with what your role is in the community and how you act. A person with a piece of paper has to speak for that piece of paper. The piece of paper doesn't speak for them.

Starlock
Vice Captain

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Religious Tolerance

 
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