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Wait, what do you mean I can't say '******?'

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Kazemuki
Captain

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:55 pm


First, I would like to note that yes, this topic has been created multiple times, however, the topic itself still holds merit. Second, yes, I do say '******.' Repeatedly. Just a forewarning.

What do you mean I can't say '******' because I'm white? Well, apparently saying it instantly makes me a racist bigot. Of course, it doesn't just stop there, city councils of New York and other towns have passed resolutions asking citizens to voluntarily stop using 'the N-word,' people have even gone so far as to write books on the evils of the word.

So what makes this word so inherently offensive? Why is it that the word, in it of itself, is entirely racist, derogatory, and insulting? Well, let us look at Oxford English Dictionary's results for the query '******:'

******, [i]n.[/i] and [i]a.[/i]
A. n. I. Senses referring to people.

1. A dark-skinned person of sub-Saharan African origin or descent; = NEGRO n. 1 a.

a. Used by whites or other non-blacks as a relatively neutral (or occas. positive) term, with no specifically hostile intent.
b. Used by whites or other non-blacks as a hostile term of abuse or contempt.
c. Used by blacks as a neutral or favourable term.
d. Used by blacks as a depreciatory term.

But that isn't all. ****** also can have the following meanings and connotations:

******, [i]n.[/i] and [i]a.[/i]
2. a. A person who does menial labour; any person considered to be of low social status. derogatory. Cf. (and earliest in) white ****** s.v. WHITE a. 11e.
b. Any person whose behaviour is regarded as reprehensible. derogatory.

3. a. A dark-skinned person of any origin. In early U.S. use usually with reference to American Indians. Usu. offensive.
b. Austral. (offensive). An Aborigine.
c. N.Z. (offensive). A Maori.

4. Now chiefly in African-American usage: a person, a fellow (regardless of skin colour).*

5. In African-American usage: (with possessive adjective) a close (usually black) friend, a comrade, a boyfriend or girlfriend, a spouse.

...

9. U.S. a. A steam-driven capstan used on some riverboats; a steam engine used to drive such a capstan (also more fully ****** engine). Now rare.

*-Recent use has developed from a conscious, politically motivated reclamation of the term among black Americans, and as such does not usually carry negative connotations, although it may be considered offensive when used by whites in imitation of this usage

Quote:
Forms: 15- (now non-standard and regional) niger, 16 nigor, 17 nigre, 19- (Caribbean) nigar. 16 niggor, 16- ******, 18 niggur, 18- *****, niggah, niggar, 19- nigguh, (plural) niggaz.


Hmm... that's odd... 'Used by whites or other non-blacks as a neutral (or occas. positive) term, with no specifically hostile intent?' 'A person who does menial labour?' Well, maybe if we delve into its etymology, we'll find out why it's so inherently racist.
Quote:
[Prob. an alteration of NEGER n., after classical Latin niger; cf. earlier NIGRO n., NIGRITE n. Cf. post-classical Latin niger black person (1582 in a Spanish colonial source). Cf. also Swedish niger (1758 ), prob. a borrowing from English (although this may perh. represent a borrowing of NEGER n.).


So... wait... You're saying that it comes from the Latin niger, meaning 'black?' But what about this?:
www.enquirer.com
“Anybody who really knows his or her history knows there is no way you can put ice cream and chocolate syrup on the word '*****' and make it sound good,” says the Rev. Elmon Prier, 54, of Middletown. “Some of our younger kids are dying a slow death by using the N-word, and they don't even know it.”


So does that mean that if I'm talking about a ****** engine, I'm continuing to poison our society and desecrate my mind and soul? What if I address my black friend as '******' when all of his other friends do so as well?

In the end, you have to conclude that the word ****** really isn't inherently racist after all. Admittedly, some uses of the word are, without a doubt. However, the word itself carries just as many connotations, both negative and positive, as most other words in the English language.

So, after reading this, what's your take on it? Why does society insist that ****** is an abomination to the language? Is this state of pseudo-political correctness a form of racism in itself?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:33 am


I think that real definitions of words have little meaning now. ****** is an example. I've heard that you can't say 'negroid' or 'mongloid' (I think I ******** up the spelling there) without someone getting offended, and to the best of my knowledge, they are, or at least, were correct terms.

Language changes along with society. I imagine words that we take for granted now will become offensive in a matter of decades.


(Is this the thread that you posted in the ED, and that someone else posted a whole other thread in reply to? What the hell was that about?)

atrixa


Kazemuki
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:53 pm


Yeah... I don't know what that thread was about... Second time someone has befouled the ED with a spam topic that included my username in the title...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:26 pm


Oh, dear god, I don't feel alive...


It doesn't matter what you say, because someone's gonna get offended. If you call someone a ******, they might get offended. The same goes for calling someone a drunk, a Bible-bumper, a heretic, a hillbilly, or an adolf. But guess what? That's where freedom of speech comes into the picture! So what if you don't like what someone is saying? No one's gonna force you to listen to them. Gawd, do I love the First Amendment.

...when you're cut short of
misery.

Mer Sane Scraps


Raige No Kaze

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:27 pm


Language itself isn't inherently racist. The intentions of the person who uses a word create the meaning. How the person using the language means what they say partly determines the end result. If they want to be racist, then the words they say will undoubtedly be just that.

On the other hand, the person hearing the words can also determine the meaning. How many times do people get crossed wires? A person says something completely innocent, and the person being spoken to takes it the wrong way. If you expect something to be insulting, you'll almost invariably hear it that way.

As for the political correctness being a form of racism, I think it is. Everyone makes a friendly dig at people they care about from time to time. It's friendly ragging, and it'll usually get you a return shot, or a punch in the arm. Nothing wrong with that. So, picture the scene, you're having one of these play fight sessions (for want of a better term) and it comes to one friend who happens to have a different skin colour.. and you can't do the same to him/her as to your other friends. The rule itself has discriminated against them.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:41 pm


Jeez it's just a word, people find it offensive, and if you're polite you won't say it. That simple. What's all the fuss about?

Skizio
Crew


Heir Fuhrer

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:51 am


People need something to get mad about, so they use a word. It's funny hwo free speech works.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:01 am


I dislike the use of the word when it is used carelessly as a endearing term by other blacks, and especially when it is used by anyone as an insult. I do not use it, I do not let others refer to me as such, and I don't find it cool or funny to say at all. I do find it a** backwards when other black people use it amongst each other but get pissed when someone else of a different race/ethnicity goes and says it. Hell, if they don't want to be referred to as such, they shouldn't be going around saying it amongst each other!

YoshiKaji

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Vegas Winfield

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:00 pm


The episode of The Boondocks that dealt with this issue pretty much summed up my opinion. We are who we decide we are, and that applies to how we are addressed.
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:16 pm


I see your point about actual definitions of the words. But the fact that a derogatory term for an African American also can mean just someone who does menial labor, I could completely understand as being offensive. The association is indeed racist, but then again, everyone's a ritter bit lacist. (Points if you get the reference)

Scraps 2-point-0
Crew

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