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Twizted Humanitarian Crew
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:41 am
what primarily is the difference between communism and socialism?
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:57 pm
There is no government in communism. Here's a description I sent to a friend explaining socialism a while back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The basic idea of communism is that under capitalism, no matter how much the poor man (proletariat) works he can never become rich (bourgeoisie) because what comes of his labor go to the bourgeoisie and he gets a tiny fraction of this, insuring that he stays in his poor state.
Yet another reason the poor man cannot get away from his status is that the bourgeoisie control the system, they control education, they control everything. The bourgeoisie donate to the schools of their children, they keep schools in upper class neighborhoods great with massive funding and eliminate the "risk" of poor people getting through the system by going to college or good schools, forcing them into work at factories or like places with low wages.
Here's a basic brake down of the classes from a communist point of view
Bourgeoisie- Upper class, this means the high level bosses and CEOs, anyone who can be considered rich. These people control the wealth and under capitalism are rarely taken away from their stature or made into part of the proletariat.
Petty Bourgeoisie- Middle class, generally holding office jobs or something like that. A franchise owner could be considered petty bourgeoisie. These people have more money then they need but aren't neccesarily rich. Someone in the petty bourgeoisie class can plausibly be pushed into the proletariat at any time although it doesn't happen a lot. In the Russian revolution the petty bourgeoisie fought with the proletariat as they generally have nothing to lose from the Bourgeoisie being taken out of power save a loss of some money.
Proletariat- The lower or working classes, sometimes reffered to as unskilled workers or people who don't have the options given to the bourgeoisie. This would include miners, factory workers, the unemployed, fast food workers, etc.
Here's another explanation of the capitalist system fairly simply Lets say me and you live in our own country with a money printing press and 100 other people. Money is printed at a constant rate of 10 dollars per 10 minutes, 1 dollar per minute. Me and you decide to go into buisness, and the others work for us. We take 60 out of every 100 dollars (fun fact- in the US 1% of the population controls 60% of the wealth) and the other 100 people are forced to split the remaining 40 of every hundred dollars. They are poor, we are rich. Some how me and you each eventually marry and have 2 kids each. These four kids are in control of our company while the kids of the other 100 people are workers in the company. The same situation occurs except since there are more people everyone loses money, it doesn't hurt the rich of course because they still have a great deal of cash. Then they fire all except 100 workers creating conflict. You see how this becomes a domino effect.
What is the solution? The solution is the beginning of socialism which means as Marx said "From each his ability, to each his need" this means that the government controls all buisness in the country, with regular pay per person. It controls education, equalizing it out to all people, it gives free health care and housing etc. to all people. The people only have to buy their own food. How do they do this? Working of course, each person works as they formerly would except they get payed based on how much money they need. Say each person needs 500 dollars a week, then the government finds out how many people live in your house and gives you enough money to provide to them all so long as you come in to work obviously. If you don't work you get fired and there is you are put on unemployment until you get hired again, if you are unemployed and it seems purposful then unemployment is cut off from you. Since the government controls buisness they get what your labor produces, then redistribute it in the economy, stabilizing the economy. This system makes sure no one is richer then anyone because if one person controls more then their share of wealth the someone else controls less then their share of wealth which can not be justice.
That is a very basic description of socialism, I can go into specifics if you'd like or if you have any points where you think it wouldn't work or want to know how this would happen or anything at all, I'll do my best to answer them.
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If you want to know about communism just read the communist manifesto, it's only 50 odd pages long and can be found online at www.marxists.org
Communism advocates communal rule of the people with no restricting government, basically anarchy. Anarchists however, think that you can skip straight to this stage of human existence, while communists believe socialism must first take place, where people gain the mindset to be able to live in such a society. In socialism the government controls resources through the people and the country is managed by worker's councils, and there are no bourgeoisie bosses or CEOs. Castro implements it decently.
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Twizted Humanitarian Crew
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:47 pm
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:38 am
No problem. Also, here's something that could easily get pulled on you in a debate (I use this tactic a lot) is the question- "have you read any pro-communist books that I've heard of?", and if you say no then the communist says "then go read one and then we'll talk." If you're interested in debating communism, read the communist manifesto or some other communist book.
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:34 pm
well, Leninator, at least he asked, rather than plunging blindly into a debate.
gotta give him credit there.
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:34 pm
Oh no I didn't mean to insult him, I actually just realized that it sounded like that. I just was warning him that if he gets into a debate it's best to have read up on it.
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:06 pm
Uhg, people never get it. True communism will never work. Only in a idealistic society, same with pretty much all others. Watered down versions have a chance of working. True democracy is not what we Americans and some other countries, live in. A watered down, ******** up version is what we live in. So there is no true 'correct' choice, more less they all just change things in a minor way, with differant ways of undertaking these tasks.
Yes, I read the OP, I was just stating an opinion*fact?*
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:38 pm
Dont Fear Reaper Uhg, people never get it. True communism will never work. Only in a idealistic society, same with pretty much all others. Watered down versions have a chance of working. True democracy is not what we Americans and some other countries, live in. A watered down, ******** up version is what we live in. So there is no true 'correct' choice, more less they all just change things in a minor way, with differant ways of undertaking these tasks.
Yes, I read the OP, I was just stating an opinion*fact?* I think that baking a cake without a cookbook (capitalism) is pretty antique and badtasting, and you don't know what you did wrong. To bake a cake with several different recepies from several cookbooks (reformative socialism) is better but if you want a real applepie, you need to use only one cookbook with one recepie. (communism) Ofcourse applepies can fail too if kept in the oven too long or any other factor.
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:02 pm
Edvvard Dont Fear Reaper Uhg, people never get it. True communism will never work. Only in a idealistic society, same with pretty much all others. Watered down versions have a chance of working. True democracy is not what we Americans and some other countries, live in. A watered down, ******** up version is what we live in. So there is no true 'correct' choice, more less they all just change things in a minor way, with differant ways of undertaking these tasks.
Yes, I read the OP, I was just stating an opinion*fact?* I think that baking a cake without a cookbook (capitalism) is pretty antique and badtasting, and you don't know what you did wrong. To bake a cake with several different recepies from several cookbooks (reformative socialism) is better but if you want a real applepie, you need to use only one cookbook with one recepie. (communism) Ofcourse applepies can fail too if kept in the oven too long or any other factor. wow...that is a realy good description of it all lol....i myself like communism and the ideas of it....maby it doesnt work in practace but i think its only because the leaders alway ruin it...like how stalin took over and started killing people and when lenin was arround russia was turned from a otherwise dead country with an outdated government into a superpower
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:07 pm
and also the leninator has a good say on communism there..basicly though if the whole world was communist there would be know poverty...and since everybodu would be treated equaly there would be no greed in the world like there is in capitalism
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:12 pm
It strikes me that a working communist system will work for one or two generations. The first generation that institutes the system through revolution will have lived through and experienced the harms of disparity and would probably honestly operate their government in the people's best interest. But after a while the people in power would like the power more than they cared about public welfare, and freeloaders and non-contributors and less useful people will drain public resources and start to piss people off. After all why should my labor support indigents?
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:02 pm
how come there is a difference between communism and the other socialism they are both words that are important to humankind.. biggrin
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:57 am
mr_zoot It strikes me that a working communist system will work for one or two generations. The first generation that institutes the system through revolution will have lived through and experienced the harms of disparity and would probably honestly operate their government in the people's best interest. But after a while the people in power would like the power more than they cared about public welfare, and freeloaders and non-contributors and less useful people will drain public resources and start to piss people off. After all why should my labor support indigents? In a true communist country no one would be in power. However you are right about the freeloaders. One other problem I could think of is that some country like the U.S. that is paranoid about a country being communist will invade and f*** this country up.
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:52 pm
Yes but, due to the natural greed of man, Communism would never work. It's a wonderful theory, but even if there was no leader, communism would collapse because everyone is given an equal share of money for everyone's work. A pizza boy is payed as much as a neurosurgeon. The theory is a neurosurgeon would go to work because he loves his job, but the problem is there would be far too many people who are lazy and would rather take easy jobs instead of hard workers. Without hard workers, society would collapse.
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:10 pm
Ok dumb question ik ik its dumb but as a teen i would love to know what the difference is between a republican and democrat
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