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 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:38 pm
Posted with permission of Triskdaemon.
Just so everyone knows, Trisk is a very knowedgable mod and a member of this guild.
Original Thread
Triskdaemon FOMG 2% SALES TACKS ZOMFG 11BBQ! Now that we've got that out of the way... I've been seeing a lot of people saying that the 2% sales fee will increase inflation because of either migration to the exchange or because of sellers raising their prices. Both of these claims are patently untrue, and here's why. Migration to the ExchangeThe marketplace rerelease will not cause a migration to the exchange. The fee will be negligible for most items. My (oft-unused, finally useful) graph of the price distribution of marketplace listings indicates that the majority of items sold fall between 10k and 100k. Now, do some math here... Yeah, that's a 200g - 2000g price range for the fee. That is NOT enough to kick people out of the marketplace and to the exchange, because the reason people use the market is for a quick, easy and trouble-free sale. The exchange is harder to get used to, and requires a significant time investment per item sold - bumping, thread creation, etc. The marketplace is fire and forget, and a lot of people won't mind dropping 2k for the convenience. We waste half that on avatar arena entries and towns topics already. The larger items where the fees will really hurt - news for you, the ones on the marketplace were ALREADY overpriced. Most serious trading of big-ticket items doesn't touch the market. When it does, the prices are normally AT LEAST 2% over the exchange prices. So, GG, that's not going to touch anything. People will raise their prices!Nah. They can raise all they want, but the free-market capitalist nature of the marketplace will kick their miserly asses for trying. There will always be people who will undercut, and there will always be buyers demanding lower prices. Look at ebay - they have listing fees, and their prices are (on the whole) pretty damn cheap. It's not what the seller wants, remember, it's what the buyer will buy it for. If the prices on the market were determined by sellers, we'd all be proper ********, the good news. What this WILL do is put a damper on inflationary trends. Y'all have been whinging about sealed letter prices for a while now, so guess what! They'll go down. This will take out 2% of the gold in the marketplace economy every day, which adds up sizably. Less gold in the economy means that gold is worth more in relation to items - i.e., lower prices. The gold you have will be worth more, the items won't spiral out of control and be inaccessible to all but the Gaia-obsessed. This will seriously help the affordability of Gaia's items, and will make questing that much easier. So, stop whining. 2% will save you money - you just don't know it yet.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:42 am
After reading this, my guess is that it may help dampen (NOT prevent entirely) inflationary trends going forward. I don't think it's going to lower prices, but perhaps it will keep the rise in the future at a more steady pace.
I don't think it's going to make current prices drop (any more than the monthly market forces do). Vendors who bought at a certain price are not going to be willing to sell lower than that price....and unless new vendors pick up the older items more cheaply, there just aren't going to be cheaper items in the marketplace.
I think people who are dreaming of a Katana at 10K are going to still be dreaming. The overall amount of gold in the system is still going to rise, and thus so will prices. But by siphoning off some of it, it will slow the increase in the monetary supply, which will slow the rise of prices.
Still doesn't mean I have to like it.
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:14 am
It may slow down inflation but prices are still going to fluctuate, since there are more people on to buy at certain times, and then there's still good old fashioned supply and demand. My prediction is it will just be a game of waiting till prices go down. People will have to adjust pricing so they don't loose money, but I honestly don't know how this will affect the market.
I've finally come to terms with the 2% fee.
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:31 am
I believe all this new MP will do is cause more people to slow down the inflation rate severely, but if not that then cause more people to go to the exchange. (That guy said 2,000g wasn't enough but how many more items are worth MORE then 400k. How about the rare 03's you sometimes still find in the MP)
Items became more expensive when gold was easier to get. We get bonuses left and right every time we do something for the first time that day Making 10k is much of a deal anymore to noobs, making 100k is easy stuff for more advanced players.
If they want the inflation to go down this will help, but they need to cut at our gold supply.
Anyhow that’s just my take on it.
- Dj Mixx
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:16 pm
thats Trisk for you, always doing whats bast for gaia^^ but come to think of it he has not been on the guild in a long time sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:54 am
Excellent points. but I still wonder how they'll take a 2% cut out of sales less than 50g. 2% is only a whole number when it is 50g or more.
what if you sell a couple of flowers for 1g? do they take a cut?
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:53 pm
alanne-6 Excellent points. but I still wonder how they'll take a 2% cut out of sales less than 50g. 2% is only a whole number when it is 50g or more. what if you sell a couple of flowers for 1g? do they take a cut?
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:33 am
Finally i made my total calculations of the money i could gained without the 2%.
Ok, after buying the lunar cowl and the Gift of the Gods, i calculated that without the 2% my current gold wouldn't be 693, it would be 23565, probably i could invest them in a dark star, but with the stupid 2% i have 693
INSANELY COOL NO?
Down with the 2%
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:40 am
Lord Gwee alanne-6 Excellent points. but I still wonder how they'll take a 2% cut out of sales less than 50g. 2% is only a whole number when it is 50g or more. what if you sell a couple of flowers for 1g? do they take a cut? I've tried to but it is hard to keep track of how much each item earns with all of the 2-4golds just for surfing on gaia. the marketplace doesn't tell you how much you earn.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:34 am
I finally ran some numbers on the effects of the 2% on my own vending.
The complete description of the calculations are in my journal, but the conclusion I came to is that the 2% tax is causing me a 15% reduction in profit on a very good vending day.
I'm going to run some more math on some other days as time permits, but 15% isn't piffling.
(Just because Gaia can't be bothered to tell me how much gold is going back into my account after I sell an item doesn't mean I can't calculate it myself. And I have LOTS of records.)
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:31 pm
I have found that the only way it affects me is that I have to be careful when buying low, other then that it's fine (I calculate the 2% tax into everything now. xD)
I will say you have to be warry when buying close to the MP and if you're planing on selling fast. You could end up losing money vs. making money.
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:22 pm
Triskdaemon
People will raise their prices!
Nah. They can raise all they want, but the free-market capitalist nature of the marketplace will kick their miserly asses for trying. There will always be people who will undercut, and there will always be buyers demanding lower prices. Look at ebay - they have listing fees, and their prices are (on the whole) pretty damn cheap. It's not what the seller wants, remember, it's what the buyer will buy it for. If the prices on the market were determined by sellers, we'd all be proper ******** class="clear">
He was wrong, There's an incredibly high inflation. Some examples: Oculus Magica: Before: 27k. After 50k Lunar Cloak: Before: 64k. After: 72k Katana: Before: 98k. After: 112k Dark Halo: Before: 51k After 64k Steel Plated Ninja Band: Before: 700k. After: 875k The list can continue. Note: calculating the 2% is extremely easy and fast (you don't need a calculator, use your brain, god put us a brain for something) If you don't know, here's the formula Item Price*2/100 Or: Item Price*0.02 Example: Nitemare Parasol for 23k, you find another for 22k. Well... in four seconds: 22000*2= 44000 44000/100= 440
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:53 pm
Jinnai_Ukyo Triskdaemon
People will raise their prices!
Nah. They can raise all they want, but the free-market capitalist nature of the marketplace will kick their miserly asses for trying. There will always be people who will undercut, and there will always be buyers demanding lower prices. Look at ebay - they have listing fees, and their prices are (on the whole) pretty damn cheap. It's not what the seller wants, remember, it's what the buyer will buy it for. If the prices on the market were determined by sellers, we'd all be proper ******** class="clear">
He was wrong, There's an incredibly high inflation. Some examples: Oculus Magica: Before: 27k. After 50k Lunar Cloak: Before: 64k. After: 72k Katana: Before: 98k. After: 112k Dark Halo: Before: 51k After 64k Steel Plated Ninja Band: Before: 700k. After: 875k The list can continue. Note: calculating the 2% is extremely easy and fast (you don't need a calculator, use your brain, god put us a brain for something) If you don't know, here's the formula Item Price*2/100 Or: Item Price*0.02 Example: Nitemare Parasol for 23k, you find another for 22k. Well... in four seconds: 22000*2= 44000 44000/100= 440 I'm not complaing though - I mean god the more inflation the faster I make money. biggrin
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:52 pm
Dj Mixx Jinnai_Ukyo Triskdaemon
People will raise their prices!
Nah. They can raise all they want, but the free-market capitalist nature of the marketplace will kick their miserly asses for trying. There will always be people who will undercut, and there will always be buyers demanding lower prices. Look at ebay - they have listing fees, and their prices are (on the whole) pretty damn cheap. It's not what the seller wants, remember, it's what the buyer will buy it for. If the prices on the market were determined by sellers, we'd all be proper ******** class="clear">
He was wrong, There's an incredibly high inflation. Some examples: Oculus Magica: Before: 27k. After 50k Lunar Cloak: Before: 64k. After: 72k Katana: Before: 98k. After: 112k Dark Halo: Before: 51k After 64k Steel Plated Ninja Band: Before: 700k. After: 875k The list can continue. Note: calculating the 2% is extremely easy and fast (you don't need a calculator, use your brain, god put us a brain for something) If you don't know, here's the formula Item Price*2/100 Or: Item Price*0.02 Example: Nitemare Parasol for 23k, you find another for 22k. Well... in four seconds: 22000*2= 44000 44000/100= 440 Obviously. I love inflations. The unique problem with inflation is that n00bs pm you lots of times asking for a kiki for 2g
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:09 pm
Jinnai_Ukyo Dj Mixx Jinnai_Ukyo Triskdaemon
People will raise their prices!
Nah. They can raise all they want, but the free-market capitalist nature of the marketplace will kick their miserly asses for trying. There will always be people who will undercut, and there will always be buyers demanding lower prices. Look at ebay - they have listing fees, and their prices are (on the whole) pretty damn cheap. It's not what the seller wants, remember, it's what the buyer will buy it for. If the prices on the market were determined by sellers, we'd all be proper ******** class="clear">
He was wrong, There's an incredibly high inflation. Some examples: Oculus Magica: Before: 27k. After 50k Lunar Cloak: Before: 64k. After: 72k Katana: Before: 98k. After: 112k Dark Halo: Before: 51k After 64k Steel Plated Ninja Band: Before: 700k. After: 875k The list can continue. Note: calculating the 2% is extremely easy and fast (you don't need a calculator, use your brain, god put us a brain for something) If you don't know, here's the formula Item Price*2/100 Or: Item Price*0.02 Example: Nitemare Parasol for 23k, you find another for 22k. Well... in four seconds: 22000*2= 44000 44000/100= 440 Obviously. I love inflations. The unique problem with inflation is that n00bs pm you lots of times asking for a kiki for 2g Yeah that brings up a point - never put two CN scarfs at the same time, I swear to god I got 20 pms. gonk
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