To what extent do we just let it be?

[Princessofwhatever]

More specifically, to what extent do we let our brothers and sisters in Christ behave in a manner that is incorrect according to what Christ says without saying a word to them? Take Galations chapter 2 (quoted at the bottom of the post) for example. Paul talks to Peter in front of everyone there for his (Peter's) hypocrisy and for leading others astray. There is a big difference between telling someone where he/she has gone wrong and judging him/her. for example, let's say you have a friend (who is also a believer in Christ) who lies constantly. One way of judging him/her would be to say "YOU LIAR!!! YOURE GOIN TA HELL!!!" To simply tell him/her where he/she has gone wrong would be more like, "You do know lying is a sin, and I know im not perfect either, but as a fellow Christian, i believe it is my duty to remind you as i try to help you grow spiritually and as you help me grow spiritually..." Point (correct me if im wrong): we as Christians should not let our fellow Christians continue in wrong without saying anything. We should not judge them either, but for a Christian to let his/her brothers and/or sisters to do wrong without saying anything would also be wrong. We should also take it to heart when other Christians tell us where we go wrong because none of us are perfect. And it is also important for us to point out appropriate scriptures to support our statements.

Galations 2:11-21

11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Btw, been a while...yeah...i apologize. after my laptop died i put gaia aside for a long time XD  

[thrashmetaljunkie]

i agree with you, we should, i know i need someone to correct me a lot of the times... that person usually ends up being the back up singer of my band, she has a whip, i swear she does O.O lol, jk. But we both check up on each other, and God helps us to talk to the other about what he may have done/said wrong. We shouldnt let it be, and i believe somewhere in the bible, it says it is a sin to do nothing, its a sin of omission... i think. thats in Catholic beliefs... i think.. >.<  

[Mountain Rose]

I agree. I had an interesting experience over the summer with a friend of mine.

We were both working at a Christian camp. She started dating this guy, and for a while, he said they weren't far enough in the relationship to stop seeing other people. Well, she liked this other guy forever (he's not a very good Christian, and he didn't work at the camp when we were there), so, while she was dating guy #1, she ended up making out with guy #2. Eventually, the relationship with guy #1 got far enough that they were boyfriend and girlfriend and (though there's some sketchiness here because I can't get a straight story from either of them) there's a possibility that she took his virginity. Shortly after the alleged incident, she broke up with him because ... well, she's 17, and that's what a guy-crazy high-schooler does. He was crushed. After that, there were more make-out sessions with guy #2, though both said that they didn't want a relationship.

*whew* If you got all that, let's continue with my part in the drama. At first I tried to protect my friend, sitting between her and guy #2 and discouraging public displays of intimacy between her and guy #1. After they broke up, the *bleep* hit the fan between her and I, since guy #1 had hinted at their alleged incident.

In conclusion, I realized it was best to just but out. I had told her numerous times what the Bible said, and she knew how I felt. After that point, there's not much a person can do without pushing their brother/sister further away from Christ.

Sorry about the long story. sweatdrop I just found this ironically relevant.  

[Seraph68]

Matthew 7:1-6

1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

4"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?

5"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

6"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

We always hear that first verse and typically interpret “Do not judge others, period” but if you read verse 5, you see what you must do first before you can “judge” someone else, you must examine yourself and deal with the sin in your life first before you confront someone else’s sin.

I would also suggest in these situations, you handle it with “love” (not romance, but compassion for the other person). It’s not just wording it kindly, but also having a relationship with the person that you are confronting. Who would you be more likely to accept correction from? A stranger? An acquaintance? A friend? Your best friend? I am not saying that you can only correct you best friend, but the closer the relationship is and the more they trust you and know that you are looking for their well being, the more receptive they would be. Also, confront them in the proper settings. It is generally better to confront someone in private (a third person acting as a witness may be necessary in some cases) rather then call them out in front of everyone (but there are times that may be called for).

But with that being said, verse 6 is a warning about correcting people. There are some people who are just not going to take your correction, and will turn against you. I have seen this happen, where there have been people who have blindfolded themselves to the sins in their hearts and when they were confronted about it, they turned bitter towards those who had said anything about it. I’d dare say that there may be times that people will be those dogs and you might have to wait for them to soften up before you can actually confront them but I would encourage them to grow closer to God which should help soften their hearts.  

[sunshinehearttrob]

totally agree. for then, they, the fellow Christians, would know and hopefully be willing to change.

its like a mother. she wouldnt just stay by and watch as her children are lead astray. she would step in and guide them back to the right path.

we, as Christians, should behave likewise.  

[lordstar]

i don't know that running around telling people how naughty they are will help

part of what it means to be a leader is to empower others to do what is right  

[Seraph68]

lordstar

i don't know that running around telling people how naughty they are will help

part of what it means to be a leader is to empower others to do what is right

I agree, but there is also a degree of correction that is needed. You can try to "empower" someone to do what is right, but sometime you just have to say that they are doing something wrong and correct them.

I was taking a swing dancing class last semester, and I was such a n00b. while the empowering positive comments did help, I learned a lot more from being corrected and doing it the right way.

Also, it probably is a good idea not to be nit-picky and nagging about corrections.  

[lordstar]

Seraph68

lordstar

i don't know that running around telling people how naughty they are will help

part of what it means to be a leader is to empower others to do what is right

I agree, but there is also a degree of correction that is needed. You can try to "empower" someone to do what is right, but sometime you just have to say that they are doing something wrong and correct them.

I was taking a swing dancing class last semester, and I was such a n00b. while the empowering positive comments did help, I learned a lot more from being corrected and doing it the right way.

Also, it probably is a good idea not to be nit-picky and nagging about corrections.

i always wanted to take a ballroom dance class but i can never seem to find time...or swing class (admin says i have too many units anyway)

the classroom enviorment is kinda like what i was getting at
but its more than just words of encuragment (although that is a major part)
its also about modeling the way and putting said person(s) in the position to make the best choices

its like guiding by segestion insted of by force

like saying "why not try the spin this way, here I'll show you."
aposed to "thats not right, you need to do it this way because thats the right way."  

[trinity343]

yeah but being corrective in the super gentle way you are suggesting doesn't work on everybody. some ppl need the more direct approach. i know a lot of the time i do. and i know plenty of ppl who do as well. it really all depends on the person personality about how your going to handle it. besides doing it the way your saying...as a role-model type figure only works in a small percentage of cases. when it's a friend or even somebody older then yourself you don't have as much of a role-model relationship with them.

i personally think that yeah you should try and talk to the person to let them know that hey that's not right, God doesn't want us t live that way. now as long as you can back it up biblically then it's done correctly...unless of of course your warping and twisting something...or if your angry, you should never try and bring something up like that if you angry at the time. allow your self to be calm. but also think that if they completly reject it after following all the correct procedures, then it isn't something you can do anymore. just back off and continue to pray for them, at this point it all comes down to God working on them.  

[Princessofwhatever]

This post is meant to respond to all the posts so far, but it was specifically sparked by this one:

lordstar

i don't know that running around telling people how naughty they are will help

part of what it means to be a leader is to empower others to do what is right

"Knowledge is power" is a very true statement. If someone does not know that they are doing wrong, which does happen often, then it's important to point it out to them so they will know that they need correction. Having that knowledge empowers them to begin correcting themselves. People can't directly change people. However, as Christians, and even simply as people, it's often our job to plant the seed of knowledge. Then it is up to them to nourish it or not (and also up to us to be there for them to help them on the path, or to leave them with a guide, the ultimate guide being the Bible) Also, being a true leader, like Jesus, deals heavily with being a servant. As a good leader, it is one's duty to lead people in the right direction. That is the general service. It simplifies to many services, even small ones such as kindly saying hello and smiling at someone who is sad for example. Planting the seed of the Gospel is also another service of Christians, as fishers of men and examples. It's not simply telling people. It's advising them, guiding them, using the Bible as a guiding light, and also helping to empower them to use the Bible themselves as a guiding light, amongst many other things. Love, compassion, empathy, and other characteristics are also major factors. As humans, we are not perfect. We all sin, but it is our job as Christians to keep trying to follow Jesus. And if we have the same problem as someone we are trying to help, i think, it's a good idea to work on that problem amongst the others together. One main purpose of associating, having fellowship with, etc. other Christians is to help each other grow. All of these things ive said and more are often exactly what it takes to empower others (even ourselves sometimes, if not a lot) to do right. This does not always work on everyone, especially because often many people dont care about the truth and/or simply dont want to hear it. But it is also important in these situations to plant the seed, if they will listen; forcing religion down one's throat is not the way to go. In some situations it is better to just let go and move on. And just to clarify, there's a difference between "letting go and moving on" and abandoning someone. You can let go and move on by simply not trying to force something on someone. You can abandon someone by doing that AND not being there for them when they need you. It can be frustrating when people dont take your good advice, but still want you to help them. Sometimes many of us dont have the patience and strength to handle that sort of situation. At this point, we just continue to seek God's guidance in our lives and continue to pray for ourselves and others. Sometimes in these situations, the best thing to do can be just to do something like give someone a hug 3nodding  

[Princessofwhatever]

Rose Spuds

I agree. I had an interesting experience over the summer with a friend of mine.

We were both working at a Christian camp. She started dating this guy, and for a while, he said they weren't far enough in the relationship to stop seeing other people. Well, she liked this other guy forever (he's not a very good Christian, and he didn't work at the camp when we were there), so, while she was dating guy #1, she ended up making out with guy #2. Eventually, the relationship with guy #1 got far enough that they were boyfriend and girlfriend and (though there's some sketchiness here because I can't get a straight story from either of them) there's a possibility that she took his virginity. Shortly after the alleged incident, she broke up with him because ... well, she's 17, and that's what a guy-crazy high-schooler does. He was crushed. After that, there were more make-out sessions with guy #2, though both said that they didn't want a relationship.

*whew* If you got all that, let's continue with my part in the drama. At first I tried to protect my friend, sitting between her and guy #2 and discouraging public displays of intimacy between her and guy #1. After they broke up, the *bleep* hit the fan between her and I, since guy #1 had hinted at their alleged incident.

In conclusion, I realized it was best to just but out. I had told her numerous times what the Bible said, and she knew how I felt. After that point, there's not much a person can do without pushing their brother/sister further away from Christ.

Sorry about the long story. sweatdrop I just found this ironically relevant.

No need to apologize. The story is highly relevant. 3nodding  

[Princessofwhatever]

Seraph68

Matthew 7:1-6

1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

4"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?

5"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

6"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

We always hear that first verse and typically interpret “Do not judge others, period” but if you read verse 5, you see what you must do first before you can “judge” someone else, you must examine yourself and deal with the sin in your life first before you confront someone else’s sin.

I would also suggest in these situations, you handle it with “love” (not romance, but compassion for the other person). It’s not just wording it kindly, but also having a relationship with the person that you are confronting. Who would you be more likely to accept correction from? A stranger? An acquaintance? A friend? Your best friend? I am not saying that you can only correct you best friend, but the closer the relationship is and the more they trust you and know that you are looking for their well being, the more receptive they would be. Also, confront them in the proper settings. It is generally better to confront someone in private (a third person acting as a witness may be necessary in some cases) rather then call them out in front of everyone (but there are times that may be called for).

But with that being said, verse 6 is a warning about correcting people. There are some people who are just not going to take your correction, and will turn against you. I have seen this happen, where there have been people who have blindfolded themselves to the sins in their hearts and when they were confronted about it, they turned bitter towards those who had said anything about it. I’d dare say that there may be times that people will be those dogs and you might have to wait for them to soften up before you can actually confront them but I would encourage them to grow closer to God which should help soften their hearts.

I agree 3nodding  

[lordstar]

Princessofwhatever

This post is meant to respond to all the posts so far, but it was specifically sparked by this one:

lordstar

i don't know that running around telling people how naughty they are will help

part of what it means to be a leader is to empower others to do what is right

"Knowledge is power" is a very true statement. If someone does not know that they are doing wrong, which does happen often, then it's important to point it out to them so they will know that they need correction. Having that knowledge empowers them to begin correcting themselves. People can't directly change people. However, as Christians, and even simply as people, it's often our job to plant the seed of knowledge. Then it is up to them to nourish it or not (and also up to us to be there for them to help them on the path, or to leave them with a guide, the ultimate guide being the Bible) Also, being a true leader, like Jesus, deals heavily with being a servant. As a good leader, it is one's duty to lead people in the right direction. That is the general service. It simplifies to many services, even small ones such as kindly saying hello and smiling at someone who is sad for example. Planting the seed of the Gospel is also another service of Christians, as fishers of men and examples. It's not simply telling people. It's advising them, guiding them, using the Bible as a guiding light, and also helping to empower them to use the Bible themselves as a guiding light, amongst many other things. Love, compassion, empathy, and other characteristics are also major factors. As humans, we are not perfect. We all sin, but it is our job as Christians to keep trying to follow Jesus. And if we have the same problem as someone we are trying to help, i think, it's a good idea to work on that problem amongst the others together. One main purpose of associating, having fellowship with, etc. other Christians is to help each other grow. All of these things ive said and more are often exactly what it takes to empower others (even ourselves sometimes, if not a lot) to do right. This does not always work on everyone, especially because often many people dont care about the truth and/or simply dont want to hear it. But it is also important in these situations to plant the seed, if they will listen; forcing religion down one's throat is not the way to go. In some situations it is better to just let go and move on. And just to clarify, there's a difference between "letting go and moving on" and abandoning someone. You can let go and move on by simply not trying to force something on someone. You can abandon someone by doing that AND not being there for them when they need you. It can be frustrating when people dont take your good advice, but still want you to help them. Sometimes many of us dont have the patience and strength to handle that sort of situation. At this point, we just continue to seek God's guidance in our lives and continue to pray for ourselves and others. Sometimes in these situations, the best thing to do can be just to do something like give someone a hug 3nodding

this is what im talking about
perhaps your way is not the right way
why not allow others to find their way
the result is the same

your "guide book" is the product of reform as was the books before it
it has undergone countless revisions and has itself spowned reform...not once but twice

think about it  

[Princessofwhatever]

lordstar

Princessofwhatever

This post is meant to respond to all the posts so far, but it was specifically sparked by this one:

lordstar

i don't know that running around telling people how naughty they are will help

part of what it means to be a leader is to empower others to do what is right

"Knowledge is power" is a very true statement. If someone does not know that they are doing wrong, which does happen often, then it's important to point it out to them so they will know that they need correction. Having that knowledge empowers them to begin correcting themselves. People can't directly change people. However, as Christians, and even simply as people, it's often our job to plant the seed of knowledge. Then it is up to them to nourish it or not (and also up to us to be there for them to help them on the path, or to leave them with a guide, the ultimate guide being the Bible) Also, being a true leader, like Jesus, deals heavily with being a servant. As a good leader, it is one's duty to lead people in the right direction. That is the general service. It simplifies to many services, even small ones such as kindly saying hello and smiling at someone who is sad for example. Planting the seed of the Gospel is also another service of Christians, as fishers of men and examples. It's not simply telling people. It's advising them, guiding them, using the Bible as a guiding light, and also helping to empower them to use the Bible themselves as a guiding light, amongst many other things. Love, compassion, empathy, and other characteristics are also major factors. As humans, we are not perfect. We all sin, but it is our job as Christians to keep trying to follow Jesus. And if we have the same problem as someone we are trying to help, i think, it's a good idea to work on that problem amongst the others together. One main purpose of associating, having fellowship with, etc. other Christians is to help each other grow. All of these things ive said and more are often exactly what it takes to empower others (even ourselves sometimes, if not a lot) to do right. This does not always work on everyone, especially because often many people dont care about the truth and/or simply dont want to hear it. But it is also important in these situations to plant the seed, if they will listen; forcing religion down one's throat is not the way to go. In some situations it is better to just let go and move on. And just to clarify, there's a difference between "letting go and moving on" and abandoning someone. You can let go and move on by simply not trying to force something on someone. You can abandon someone by doing that AND not being there for them when they need you. It can be frustrating when people dont take your good advice, but still want you to help them. Sometimes many of us dont have the patience and strength to handle that sort of situation. At this point, we just continue to seek God's guidance in our lives and continue to pray for ourselves and others. Sometimes in these situations, the best thing to do can be just to do something like give someone a hug 3nodding

this is what im talking about
perhaps your way is not the right way
why not allow others to find their way
the result is the same

your "guide book" is the product of reform as was the books before it
it has undergone countless revisions and has itself spowned reform...not once but twice

think about it

I have thought about it, and i came to the conclusion that the Bible is still a perfect guide. Taking advice from it has made life much easier for me personally. I also as a result of that, more learning, and more thought, came to the conclusion that God has not let the Bible get changed so much that it loses its ability to guide people in the right direction if taken in proper context  

[lordstar]

Princessofwhatever

lordstar

this is what im talking about
perhaps your way is not the right way
why not allow others to find their way
the result is the same

your "guide book" is the product of reform as was the books before it
it has undergone countless revisions and has itself spowned reform...not once but twice

think about it

I have thought about it, and i came to the conclusion that the Bible is still a perfect guide. Taking advice from it has made life much easier for me personally. I also as a result of that, more learning, and more thought, came to the conclusion that God has not let the Bible get changed so much that it loses its ability to guide people in the right direction if taken in proper context

What I was getting at by pointing out the fact that Islam reformed Christianity by decree of your lord God because the bible had become tainted is that by your own logic the Koran being the newer and more up to date would be the better reference.

but the way i see it
both are the tails side of a double headed coin