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Who is agnostic....but not living for God.

Ok so yes I know there is an agnostic thread already but this is more I know being agnostic and not having a firm belief is not right and I want to know how to talk to my g/f about it(she is actually on gaia too). I kinda have been slipping in the God conversation now and then and she listens because we love each other but It is long and hard trying to get her to see what is right and why she is suffering so much (moved senior year, has one parent, is living pretty poor right now). So she is going through hard times and I just keep thinking ugh if you had a belief in God it would be a lot better for you to handle. I guess I posted this to see if anyone else has ideas or support and if they have had to deal with this firsthand or through another. Becuase I love her and I want her to find the greatest love of all.

And for all those saying she is a shakey christian that is all....thats really not how she is she hasn't group up in a church and she even told me she has considered buddishism so she really doesn't know what to believe but at least she believes there is something...I just need to work off that.. Now if she was athiest this would be a whole different story..

Suggestions, ideas, anicdotes, support, and prayer are all welcome.

I can honestly say that that you seem to have a really really warped view of what Christianity is and I am sorry ahead of time if I offend you. The fact of the matter is that if I believe what I believe then I know that God not Christianity can help her and if I don't believe that then I don't have faith in God. yes the things you mentioned like art or music can be temporary fixes but it can't ever take the place of what God wants for her...So I respect what ou believe Pirate but agnosticism in and of itself is not rational due to the fact that you are not deciding on anything but rather being indecisive. Thats not how life works you can't just be indecisive about things. I truly think when you think of Christianity you think of it as a religion and not a God who cares for you and loves you...until you get to that point then you never really knew what it was about..and I feel horrible that no one helped you there and that you choose satanism instead.

In other words these things of the earth only help for a bit but they are not the know all be all and I am asking anyone else if they know a good way to talk to her about what the way and truth and the light is to help her realize that God has her problems in his hands.

haha ya Pirate to a degree...but I don't claim to be adverse much in theology, (but I will be when I start classes at college in a week) but in general you seem to be running your claims in circles.

Lets start with this...do you agree that agnosticism is someone who believes in a higher power of some sort but doesn't have a set stance or belief? Because the definitions you gave me point to (without belief) which is exactly what that is...it isn't a claim of saying i believe that there is something...it is a stance that I don't know what I want to believe nor do I at this point believe in something. And yes the definition may not be off to the side as that but thats what she labels herself as and that what most people (like it or not) who do not know how to use words in proper context. In as clear as I can try to say it..she believes in something but is confused about how to believe it or why and what to believe. As in she is a person who is "I have to see it to believe it" which is not faith as I am sure you know the definition of.

And to say you are atheist and agnostic is (pardon the word) is an oxymoron due to the fact that atheism is a belief in absolutely no higher power or anything, it is a belief in nothing more than science and what we see around us. So to say you are a satanist who atheist would say does not exist is going agaist that term...Now pirate I am not trying to attack you in anyway because thats not what I believe God wants me to do. I actually find this conversation quite stimulating. So just know that.

Now back onto my g/f. In no way has she rejected the idea of having a God who loves her and wants to take care of her needs.. She just has a hard time seeing prayer and God work in her life because she has had a tough life. And yes she does do things to try to cure that like getting and talking to friends on Gaia or talking to me on the phone (she lives in FL now its a long distance relationship) or reading harry potter smile But just the other day she was almost in tears talking to me saying how she is so frustrated. So I don't think worldly things are working too well for her. I would tell you more of what she delved into but that isn't for a public board. Maybe talk to me in PM if you want to try to listen to the story. but ya.. You seem like a very smart person and I so far love your responses but do you see what I am getting at..?

Geezz I wish more people would respond on this thread it would be more interesting.

Plus I could still use help for this prob.

Wow Pirate, you have us pegged, don't you? lol. I am indeed a busy girl--just got home from work and I'm off to re cover a chair! (yay! I love DIY projects!)

I have one thing to say on this situation you're describing, Great, and I want you to really listen to this because it is a painful lesson to learn: Missionary Dating is WRONG.

Missionary dating is defined (by me and the rest of my friends/past youth groups) as dating a person of a different faith (or a lack of faith) with the idea that you will be able to show them the way to Christ. It breaks alot of hearts--and it's a huge reason why you shouldn't be involved romantically with someone whose beliefs are different from yours--because God won't necessarily find people in your timing. God's timing really freaking sucks sometimes, actually--at least, that's how it will look like to us. This advice is more for you than for her--because if you are in the relationship for the wrong reason, nothing but heartache awaits you.

But, since you are already in a relationship, I will continue on from this point in the assumption that you are not missionary dating; that you, in fact, just didn't look at spiritual compatability before you began the relationship. (you will also notice that I am setting aside the debate about the word Agnostic.)

Your girlfriend, you say, has trouble seeing God work in her life--so did I, before HE revealed it to me. God is always working in our lives, and we RARELY see it for what it is at the time. I'm going to bust out an example I've used before in this guild (i think), but it illustrates my point:

There is something you need to understand about my town--drugs, dealing, cutting, depression, while on the fall, are still really big parts of alot of people's lives. When I was 15, someone who was like a mother to me was the victim of a suspicious suicide (many of us think she had some help). Not only was she like a mother to me, but she was like a mother to the entire drama department--about 90 already emotionally unstable teens (I mean, we were in drama). I should also point out that roughly 10% of these kids were Christians, including the woman's daughter.

What I went through in the weeks after--clinging desperately to prayer just to have something to cling too, crying everyday, watching as my friends, believers and non-believers alike, fell into drugs and self mutilation.... Well, I still believed in God, sure, even though I was a pretty new Christian...but I was angry with Him. I didn't see any purpose in what I went through. Why would a God that 'loved' me let me see that much pain?

I came through that time in my life--by the grace of God--relatively unscathed. But I still didn't understand the WHY. WHY would God let that happen to me? Didn't he love me?

It wasn't until years later, as high school graduation drew close, that I understood why. In the space of a few months, I had more divine appointments with people dealing with suicide, contemplating suicide, or scared for a friend in that place, than I EVER wanted to have. And I realised, one day, why God had let me go through the pain of that earlier experience. While God didn't cause what happened, he used my pain and my suffering for something good. I never would have related to people that I had, really, random conversations with if I hadn't been there and in that hardship.

What I'm trying to say is that Hindsight is 20/20, especially with God. I didn't realize until YEARS later that God was using that hard time--the times that I was crying out to Him "Why? Why are you doing this to me? Don't you love me?"--to prepare me for the works he had laid out ahead of me.

Your GF may not see God's plans for her now or even in the near future, but be assured that he WILL use her "tough life" for good.

As far as what you could do to talk about it with her and help her to see God--not much. Talk is good, but talk alone won't change anything. Pray for her faithfuly. Prayer is the biggest catalyst of change in our world and beyond. Get others to pray for her as well--I will certainly do so.

And don't talk too much. The last thing someone who is seeking answers to the 'why' questions of their life and God needs is to hear someone tell them how much easier knowing God will make their life. Because knowing God doesn't make everything better--it just makes you better equipped to deal. Give her some space to seek--but keep praying for her. Ask God to show her ways in which he is relavent to her. Ask God to open her eyes and her heart to his works. Just Pray. Prayer helps.

and.....Rowena has finished another signature LOOOOOOOONG post. Hope some of it was relavent.

The main difference to note, Burny, is that even your source said that he simply cannot know if gods exist. He is uncertain whether they do or do not, and hope, faith, belief, etc. cannot change that he simply cannot know. What he believes has no relevance on what he doesn't know.

Many people think that agnosticism is not knowing what you believe--which is false, and seems to be the (false) definition that Mr. Ravenclaw (woo--LUNA) is familiar with.

Agnosticism is, in short, the claim that gods are non-falsifiable.

It is not, however, not knowing what you believe. Belief has no relevance in the definition of agnosticism.

Ingersoll is right. He says there is an absolute answer: either gods do, or do not exist. However, he claims that he cannot be sure which is true, because gods are non-falsifiable, regardless what he believes.

Make sense? I'm afraid I'm repeating myself quite a bit.

Oh, you know!

Glad you're rethinking it, but don't cling too closely to what you personally believe the definition of agnosticism to be in the face of proof. Willful ignorance was never very becoming...

No, it's not. One can be certain in their beliefs, just as I am certain that there is no god. However, at the same time, one can be certain that we cannot know, despite our beliefs. You see, a/theism are belief claims, and agnosticism is a knowledge claim. This is why such specifications as "hard" and "soft" a/theists exist. Hard a/theists believe that there are or are not gods, and that their beliefs can be supported by fact. Soft a/theists believe that there are or are not gods, but that they may never know for sure.