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Article: Its a mystery: Dysfunctional Behavior and the Pagan Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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maenad nuri
Captain

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:58 pm


Its a Mystery: Dysfunctional Behavior and the Pagan Scene

Essay on how to find functional pagans, and why covens don't always work (hint, its the crazy people), and from that, how to make one that does.

Note: it is driven towards a generic neo-pagan, but the advice and psychology works in any group.

Shamelessly taken from HellenicPagan.

Anyone got comments?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:08 am


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LadyEladrin

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Starlock

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:29 am


Portions of this confirmed what I read in a recent anthropoligical study on Paganism and magical beliefs. That nearly all of them come to it from dysnfuctional backgrounds and wanting power to get control back into their lives. I'm kinda an exception to that, as I love my parents to death and really don't have any major gripes with life. Of the others I have known who have been magically inclined, the majority of them, though, come from dysfunctional backgrounds.

The anthroplogical study I read cast a more positive light on these people than this article does. It described belief in magic as self-empowerment ot better one's life. But how many people actually use it in that way? Though this article gives no statistics, and so any real concludion cannot be made, it suggests that few do. I liked the list they had in here about the 'less healthy reasons to be pagan.'

I'm not sure if I agree that the problem isn't Paganism. It's definately part of the problem. Because it isn't centralized and generally lacks strong moral and ethical guidelines, things like this tend to happen. There's no common code of honor to encourage general kindness and tolerance. There isn't a strong unifying philosophy of life either; you have to really dig for that. That's why in developing my own system, I covered these two things above all else. Spellwork is fun, but it should, in my mind, be secondary to honorable conduct and a unifying, peaceful way of seeing the world.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:07 pm


I loved the article. It puts down the reasons I am not part of a group so nicely, and I can relate to it- a little too well.

I liked the Pratchett quotes as well.

I wonder when the epidemic really swung into full force. I remember there being some okay pagans and heathens in my area.

Someone asked me how a Teacher or Student could be manipulative the other day. That was a real eye opener.

TeaDidikai


Doctrix

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:09 pm


I saw this article on the "f_m_p_p_h_trads" (Fascist Meanie Poo-Poo-Head Traditionalists) community on LiveJournal. Good essay. I like how it provided some solutions instead of just ranting about the problems. Since that community has a Traditional Wiccan context, I commented on the "judgemental" accusations that go around. It seems to me that a good Traditional Wiccan HP or HPS should be judgemental. Ultimately, the safety and stability of their group depends on it. Rather than become upset when called judgemental, they should carry that label with pride.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:32 pm


Starlock
Portions of this confirmed what I read in a recent anthropoligical study on Paganism and magical beliefs. That nearly all of them come to it from dysnfuctional backgrounds and wanting power to get control back into their lives.


that's interesting. Almost all the pagans I've met (who are all teens.) have problems at home or in relationships. One is in the middle of a huge nasty custody battle between her parents. I really think that she's only interested in wicca for 'the power.'

Spring-heeled Jill


Keistera

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:19 pm


Everything listed in the article reminded me of drama I have heard about or witnessed (ESPECIALLY online). It's one of those things you read, and nod along with, you know: "Uh huh, yeah, that's right." A good article, I walked away with this quote, and it has stuck:

"Healthy systems value discovery & understanding rather than unquestioning obedience." - John Cleese

... Monty Python member notwithstanding...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:28 am


[Kudzu]
It seems to me that a good Traditional Wiccan HP or HPS should be judgemental. Ultimately, the safety and stability of their group depends on it. Rather than become upset when called judgemental, they should carry that label with pride.


I'm inclined to agree.

A lot of the exclusivity in pagan communities that I have seen personally, came about as a form of manipulation. People want something more when they are told no, or when it is perceived that there is exclusivity.

This follies when people try to be exclusive for their own sanity. I don't want to practice with just anyone. I'm burned out with all the drama and I don't want that tied to my magick. People take offence at this and shove themselves deeper into their own ego- nasty cycle that is.

TeaDidikai


Son of Axeman

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:32 pm


I'll admit, I was originally attracted to Wicca as a method to gain power over my life; something I was lacking at the time. However, I quickly steered clear of those intentions. We can't really stop the power-hungry fluffies from taking an interest for power, that's impossible, or at least highly improbable. What must be worked on is to show the new ones that Wicca is not a tool to be used to empower themselves (you all know what I mean by that, I'm sure).
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:58 pm


For a well-rounded and well-balanced person, occult and magic beliefs can serve as a way for strengthening the self. My sister-in-law is a Pagan with occult beliefs, and she says that when she does rituals for prosperity or something of the like, it strengthens her conviction to better herself, inspires her to do well. This is a prime example of how such beliefs

For a person who is unbalanced or emotionally unstable, belief in magic can be the catalyst that throws you right over the edge.

Triste Morningstar II


TeaDidikai

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:28 pm


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:03 pm


By "around here" i hope you mean in your neck of the woods and not the online community here. That could be messy.
I can see the Asatru idea of not immediately giving respect unless it's been earned. It makes sense. Respect is something you earn. However, a great way to make sure that noone ever gives you any respect is to treat them like dirt and expect them to still want to earn your respect. Did I make any sense there? I'm kinda tired...

LadyEladrin

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TeaDidikai

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:23 pm


EladrinStarmist
By "around here" i hope you mean in your neck of the woods and not the online community here. That could be messy.
I can see the Asatru idea of not immediately giving respect unless it's been earned. It makes sense. Respect is something you earn. However, a great way to make sure that noone ever gives you any respect is to treat them like dirt and expect them to still want to earn your respect. Did I make any sense there? I'm kinda tired...


Yes. In my neck of the woods. Within 20 miles of my house.

You did make sense, but I disagree. I think respect for others is where you start, people can loose respect, and gain more respect, but to start off without any respect for another individual? To disrespect someone because you do not know them? That seems like hypocrisy.

Would you like people to assume you are a bad person and have to prove yourself? Or would you rather be treated with respect, until you prove you do not deserve it.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:40 pm


RE: Respect. (for nuri)
I start off with a basic level of civility for people. I'm not going to hurt anyone, not going to bite their heads off, or anything like that. This is a base. More respect or disrespect is given as earned.

I've heard a lot of other people give this same explanation. Perhaps Asatru as well?

maenad nuri
Captain


TeaDidikai

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:06 pm


Nuri
RE: Respect. (for nuri)
I start off with a basic level of civility for people. I'm not going to hurt anyone, not going to bite their heads off, or anything like that. This is a base. More respect or disrespect is given as earned.

I've heard a lot of other people give this same explanation. Perhaps Asatru as well?


I think the concept is present in Asatru from what I have read. I wouldn't want to go by what I have seen around my community though- wouldn't want to judge the majority by a poor example set by a minority.

That's pretty much how I do things as well. I actually give a little more respect to begin with. People will either earn familiarity or they will earn disrespect. But disrespect isn't so much disrespect as avoidence. I don't need to waste time with folks who I dislike.
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