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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:30 am
Ooh! Catechism love. rolleyes There is also a searchable version, not on .va, with more white space (for those of use who can't concentrate on the weird beigy background).
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:31 pm
brad175 METALFumasu That's a big accusation to be making, calling Catholicism the Pharisees of today. Especially since Catholicism is the original sect of Christianity. *le sigh* Why does everyone pick on Catholicism these days...*shrugs* Also, mind if I ask why its a problem if you marry her and you're a Baptist and she's a Catholic? I mean, it's not like Catholics are Muslims or Jewish. You're both Christians, so you should be able to marry without a problem. Lol! Better cover up, your ignorance is showing. I could say the same about you in that post. Here, let me explain . . . brad175 Seriously though, the Catholic church was not the original sect of Christianity by any means. The original sect of Christianity consisted of Jesus and 11 out of 12 of his disciples. Though, if you look at the things that Jesus and those 11 disciples did, you should see a pretty striking resemblance to some very uniquely Catholic practices and theology. Example: Read the story about Jesus on the road to Emaus. (end of one of the Gospels. It's the first time Jesus shows up after the resurection) What does Jesus do? He celebrates the Mass (basically). Of course, Lutheran services do resemble this form quite a bit as well, as do a few other Protestant churches. However, many churches don't even celebrate the breaking of the bread, which I find incredibly odd. Didn't Jesus say, "Do this."? If that's not a commandment, I don't know what is. But I'm getting a bit off topic, so let's continue. brad175 Following Jesus' assenscion into heaven, there was a huge explosion in the church. If you would read the Bible you would see, that the disciples established many churches all over the globe. Christianity did become big in Rome at one point, hence the book "Romans." Christianity in Rome brought about the Roman Catholic Church. Just because it had and has a large following does not make it the first church.You seem to be implying that the Roman Church was different than the Corinthian Church or the Phillipian Church. This is a huge error. Yes, there were many churches, but there was only one Church. The early Church did have a hierarchy (even brief research into the early Church would reveal that) in which the local bishops of each church would answer to the Apostles, who in turn answered to Peter. (I can go into this more if you wish, but for now I'll leave it at that.) Because of this, each church didn't just do whatever it wanted. Each church didn't even worship in whatever way they wanted. The liturgy was developed in the early, early church in order to ensure that they worshiped in the same way. Why? Because they were one Church with one set of teachings and one theology. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not get its name from the fact that it came from Rome, as oposed to Corinth and the other cities. If this were true, then the early Christians in Rome would have described themselves as Roman Catholics, correct? Or, at the very least, by the 300s (a time when no one would argue the Catholic Church did not exist as one, unified church), wouldn't they have used the term Roman Catholic to distinguish from being a Corinthian Catholic? In fact, there is no evidence of the term "Roman Catholic" ever being used before the 1500s. brad175 The Catholic church has always been corrupt. They sold tickets to heaven in the past and they molest children today. 1. Fallacy of the wrong level. You cannot use individual data to make claims about a group, nor can you use group data to make claims about an individual. The first is known as a reductionist fallacy. The second is an ecological fallacy. Both use false logic to arive at false conclusions. You are guilty of a reductionist fallacy here. You use data about individuals to infer something about the group as a whole. Individual members of the Catholic Church have been corrupt. The Church as a whole has never been corrupt. How do we know this? Analyze group data. How do we do that? We look at the doctrine of the Church. Find me one corrupt teaching in there and I will concede that the Church is corrupt. Fail to do that, however, and you have no support for your assertions of corruption in the Church. 2. The Catholic Church never sold tickets to heaven. In fact, individual Catholics have also never sold tickets to heaven. (on a large scale, that is. I don't doubt some 6 year old Catholic child may have tried to sell pieces of paper with stickers that say, "ticket to heaven" at some point or another, but that's more cute than blasphemous) Members of the Catholic Church did, at one time, sell tickets to get out of Purgaoty, but that is not the same as selling tickets to heaven. Once you're in Purgatory, there's no where to go except for heaven, so technically you already have the ticket to heaven. Indulgences were just said to speed along the process a bit. (obviously it was a lie, but whatever) The other lie told about indulgences at the time was that they could get rid of sins you had commited. Now, while this might seem like a ticket to heaven, all Catholics, even during this time period, understand that salvation is not a one time thing. You can always lose it. So, though they thought the indulgences would wipe their slates clean, they did not look at them as a ticket into heaven. (note: I'm not defending this highly corrupt and dispicable practice of the Middle Ages. I'm just clarrifying what they actually were.) (as for the whole child molestation thing, I believe it is also corrupt and dispicable, but as I said before, individual data does not infer group data.) brad175 One thing hasn't changed though- they still know how to abuse power and hold themselves more highly than they ought to. Huh? Give me an example of the Church abusing its power today. (not an individual, mind you, but the Church) As for holding ourselves more highly than we ought to, I'm not sure of what you mean by that. We do hold that we are the One True Holy and Apostolic Church that Christ established on Earth, but whether that is more than we ought to do is entirely based on your views of the Church. Obviously Protestants will disagree with this and obviously Catholics won't. The truth of the matter, however, will not be solved either until we get to heaven or until the second comming (whichever comes first). Because of this, the Protestant assertion that the Catholic Church is not the One True Church is no more valid than the Catholic assertion that we are. Both are just opinions. I also think I'm a great person. Are you going to tell me that I'm thinking more highly of myself than I ought to? No! (well, maybe you would, but I would hope not) Why? Because we all know it's an opinion. We all know that it isn't based on non-refutable evidence and we all know that it doesn't need to be. brad175 I pick on Catholicism because I know a lot about it. Brad, you may think you know a lot about Catholicism, but I'm afraid you don't know enough about it to fully understand my religion. If you have any questions, pm me about it.
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:43 pm
getting hacked sucks As for everyone else. I think there _is_ a problem with a Baptist marrying a Catholic. There's a HUGE difference in belief. While Catholics believe they should pray to Mary and the saints, who are _ded_ btw, Baptist believe they should take it seriously when God says not to worship/pray to anyone but himself. And that's just one example.
Catholicism and Prodestants (sp) are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, weather you shoose to acknowlage this or not.
even take a look at the dictionary - it'll tell you quite blatantly what this difference is:
Catholicism: the faith, system, and practice of the Catholic Church, esp. the Roman Catholic Church
Christianity: 1 - of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ 2 - a religious person who believes Jesus is the Christ and who is a member of a Christian denomination
(I took the only/most relitive definitions. Click the links to visit Dictionary.com and view them for yourself)
You see, every Catholic is a Christain because they follow Christ. But other denominations do not follow the Catholic Church. Why? Because there is a huge difference in teachings. Sure, you're both believers, but there _will_ be conficts, weather you think so _now_ or not. You'll see so later.
Well...That's all I've gotta say about that..
"If at first you don’t succeed; call it version 1.0." I don't understand your logic here. Yes, the two religions are different, but why should that mean that two people with different religions can't get married? Difference of beliefs causes problems in marriage no matter what those beliefs are. But you wouldn't say that Republicans should only marry republicans and democrats should only marry democrats, would you? Why should personal beliefs stop you from marrying the person you're in love with? Why should being in love with someone force you to abandon your belief in God for one that you might not necessarily believe in? My aunt, a Catholic, is married to a Mormon. If there are two beliefs that clash more than those two, I don't know what they are. Yet they still have a wonderful and happy marriage. To Arkady, I strongly urge you to make sure your fiance understands what your Baptist teachings are. If she doesn't agree with them, yet she still converts, she will be doing a grave injustice both to herself and to God. As for understanding more about the Catholic faith, I would recomend www.catholic.com as a good online source and Catholicism for Dummies as a wonderful book source. Both divide things by topic and do a great job of explaining basic Catholic beliefs. (on another note entirely . . . .) getting hacked sucks While Catholics believe they should pray to Mary and the saints, who are _ded_ btw, Do you deny the resurection? No? Then how can you say that Mary and the Saints are dead? We as Christians believe that Jesus will give us eternal life. How then can you say that those devout Christians who have died before us are dead?
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:30 am
garra_eyes I don't understand your logic here. Yes, the two religions are different, but why should that mean that two people with different religions can't get married? Difference of beliefs causes problems in marriage no matter what those beliefs are. But you wouldn't say that Republicans should only marry republicans and democrats should only marry democrats, would you? Why should personal beliefs stop you from marrying the person you're in love with? Why should being in love with someone force you to abandon your belief in God for one that you might not necessarily believe in? My aunt, a Catholic, is married to a Mormon. If there are two beliefs that clash more than those two, I don't know what they are. Yet they still have a wonderful and happy marriage. I strongly agree on this point; my partner and I are not of the same belief system, not of the same political views, and yet get along fabulously. I'm not going to lie - it took a lot of hard feelings, sacrifice and work. Yet now we literally think along the same lines in casual thought, and we're both happy to allow a freedom of belief in the relationship. He's open to God, he just doesn't believe right now. Yes I pray for him, and yes I would love him to be Catholic, but I don't want him to be Catholic if he doesn't believe.
The fact is, when you're going to marry someone, you have to be prepared to give up a hell of a lot for them. You need to be prepared to stand down completely in arguments, and you've basically got to love them enough to put up with all their annoying habits for a lifetime. Things like marriage preparation classes shouldn't really need to happen; you should be able to work with this person like clockwork before you even think about marriage.
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:04 am
Everyone knows Gods word is the sword of truth and there are no other books I dont trust anyother books but the book god judges from the BIBLE and ..The bible says NO MAN can Come to the father but by me (JESUS CHRIST) Marry was a great woman of god but believe me no one has seen her because she is dead and if they have trust me it wasnt the fatima or anyother story. God is the only one we serve and to reach him we MUST go through Jesus and the Eucurist /Comunion is only a symbolic event to make us remember what Jesus did for us..You wanna feel the prescence of God just read a real bible and pray and Listen to what God tells you through his holy spirit and you will see no man can forgive your sins like Jesus.... I still love all my brothers and sisters and just like my real family I am entitled to free speech lol hugs
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:23 pm
Upon further speculation of my own opinion of Catholicism, I've realized some crucial errors in my thinking. First of all, I grouped all Catholics together, attributing the most radical theology that most-likely came from one particular group to all Catholics. The same mistake can be made when looking at any denomination wherein Christians can be found. Next, I directed my attack on a "strawman," of Catholicism, the hypocrites within the Catholic congregation, rather than the Christians that can be found in that very congregation. Once again, this same mistake can be made with any denomination. Really, my opinion beforehand started with problems with some Catholic theology, but then somehow turned into a judgment of Catholics as a whole. I've realized that my assertion that catholics are "the pharisees of today" has no basis at all. I'm really embarrassed to display such a mistake across the web, and there's really no excuse. To address the initial question, go ahead and marry her. It's the same religion, if you want to call it that, just in a different building with different ways to worship.
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:26 pm
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:35 pm
Littlelukee I've thought about this a lot, and pondered day after day. It was very upsetting, because most of my friends were catholics, and my opinions contradicted theirs completely. The fact is, many things said by the catholic church are completely made up with no reference to the Bible whatsoever. In class, I always seperated Catholics and Christians. That was obviously a biased thing to say, and I've had many outbursts at me for saying that. There was a point at which I actually thought that it was absolutely fine, and everyone in my church was being biased, prejudiced, and said the Catholic Church was a weapon of Satan. Though I still don't believe in that, I state the truth. The Catholic Church is chock-full of lies. I don't really know what they base their religion on, because many parts of it aren't the Bible. Take purgatory, for example. Where in the Bible does it say that? Nowhere. In fact, there is a verse that tramples that idea completely. "...For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." Although I don't understand the concept of purgatory completely, I know that it's somewhere along the lines of, if you die without God, but went to the Catholic Church, you can pay off your sins in purgatory. The reason God sent Jesus is because is so no one can boast about being saved, because it was a free gift, a gift from God. So, you can't work off your sins in purgatory. Who thought of these extra ideas? If I'm correct, which I'm not sure that I am, it was the Pope. Well, why does the Pope have authority? The Pope is human like you and I, and sins like you and I. If the Pope didn't sin, he would be Jesus. And no one is Jesus but Jesus. So what made the Pope think that he could say these things, and make an entire religion believe it? Well, when you think about it, the Pope had no authority. He is human, and the fact that he did think of all of this shows one thing; That the Pope thinks that he is greater than human. Perhaps, even greater than the word of God, The Bible. To that I say this. Our God, the God of the Universe, is said to have breathed the stars. Well, let's talk about stars. There is a particular star, that, in proportion, if the Earth was a golf ball, that star would be 6 Mount Everests. And think about it, somewhere on that golf ball, the president of the United States is on it. The Pope is on it. YOU'RE on it. And think of what a small fraction you are compared to the Earth, not even visible from space. I ask you, is the Pope any greater? Also, if I am correct (Again, I'm not sure, because I've never studied Catholicism), Catholics pray to the Saints. I'm sorry to say, but just as everyone else, Saints were humans, and came to the same end, as unfortunate as that is. Mary is now lying in her grave and cannot be a messenger from you to Jesus. In fact, the Bible states that the Holy Spirit is the messenger. So why, do you not commonly hear people praying to the Holy Spirit? I'm so sorry if anyone was offended, or if I said something wrong. Please, comments?
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:44 pm
You have some good concerns, some I even share, but I just want to point out that despite how churches today started, there are many people who still find God, and worship Him right. Also, there are people who may have started in a church with a great foundation, but still miss the point and mess up. There are even whole churches are like that. So, I understand if you want to know some history of Catholicism and its beliefs, but lets leave at that. Lets try not to point any fingers, it only ends up with people getting hurt. Also be sure to read what has already been posted here and this thread: http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=8495459You may find that some of your questions have already been answered.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:44 pm
Genrally I hear so much slander about the Catholic church that I honestly don't know what's true and what's not. I do beleive that when it comes tp sprinkling babies, it's not a good idea since those babies do not have a true understanding of God and are born without sin. In a since being babtist is an act of washing away your sins, and I never heard of anyone being sprinkled in the bible. Only emersed in water. This is my only opinion about the Catholic faith because like I said I don't know what is slander and what is fact.
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