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 Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:14 pm
Quote: Anyone ever read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley? Although it is a horrible society to one of us outsiders, a society such as the one in Brave New World would be stable and happy. I'm too lazy to describe what Aldous Huxley describes in over 200 pages, so I'll leave you to read or contemplate that piece of literature. Under that definition, The Matrix is also a perfect governing tool, so long as no one figures out what's going on. I think I'm with Plato on this one; governance needs philosophy. And really, so does society, because, if the society is made of people who can't think for themselves, then you don't need to be philisophical to govern them, just be more powerful. Personally, I'm all for true Marxist Communism. And it would work, given that no one decides to take control for themselves. 'Only in a time of plenty' he said, but does any one listen? No.
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:56 pm
Hmm...
Once read that "the government that is best governs least, if at all", or something like that. I cannot remember where from...
And... a society like Brave New World seems much like it is now... it's a scary thing. At least, it seemed to be the same to me. (Plus, everyone's idea of a utopia is different. One person's idea of utopia could be a living hell to another.)
I'm just trying to state that there can't be a thing as perfection... I suppose. sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:04 pm
I'm sure most of you have read "the giver" (since that is usually read around, middle school, most people know of it), anywho, do you guys think that is a good society? or a bad one? somewhere along the scale you have to sacrifice freedom for control, or vice /versa.
after all, the USA's government basicly brags about its freedom, while in the Netherlands marijuana is (basicly) legal, and prostitution is a paid, legal proffesion(they pay women not to work if they have STDs, making the country's STD percentage much lower than the US). Wouldn't that make them more free?
Religion is also a major issue when it comes to government, lets face it, the US government is run by white,christian,males. Which undoubtely affects the way it is run.
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:10 am
Digital Leviathan My government would be mostly libertarian. I would have everyone with an IQ under 110 sterilized. Anyone with a genetic debilitiating physical defect would be sterilized. Everyone will be tested for HIV. Anyone that has HIV will be moved to their own colony, which will be upper-middle class and well fed. They will get all of the medication they possibly need. Anyone that avoids being taken to this place will be made into a eunich. All large corporations will be dissolved into smaller companies. All nonviolent drug offenders will be pardoned, and drugs will be made legal. Taxes will be abolished and replaced with user fees, with one exception. Drugs will be taxed to pay for the programs described above. Rape will be punished with jail for not shorter than 1 year the first offense. Not longer than 10 years for the second count. And will result in amputation of sex organs on the third count. I won't have a utopia, but I'll be damn close.
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:52 am
breaking of dawn Digital Leviathan My government would be mostly libertarian. I would have everyone with an IQ under 110 sterilized. Anyone with a genetic debilitiating physical defect would be sterilized. Everyone will be tested for HIV. Anyone that has HIV will be moved to their own colony, which will be upper-middle class and well fed. They will get all of the medication they possibly need. Anyone that avoids being taken to this place will be made into a eunich. All large corporations will be dissolved into smaller companies. All nonviolent offenders will be pardoned, and will be made legal. Taxes will be abolished and replaced with user fees, with one exception. will be taxed to pay for the programs described above. Rape will be punished with jail for not shorter than 1 year the first offense. Not longer than 10 years for the second count. And will result in amputation of organs on the third count. I won't have a utopia, but I'll be damn close. I shudder at the thought of the words that are about to come from my fingers. I really do. I have to agree with Leviathan on this one. It would be near-utopian in nature. There's only one small error he made. More dangerous chemicals such as her0in, c0caine, and the like...I'd eliminate them entirely. Mar1juana is okay if taxed, and alcohol can be moderated, but...nothing else. Tobacco too, but that's only because I smoke. A true libertarian society cannot exist, because it is very truly human nature to want to grab the other guy by the balls and twist until he gives. It's all we know, and unless we instill brand-frickin-new values into select children with potential and then neutralize all our bad influence, i.e. the rest of the human race, then we'll never know. I once had this idea, this thought experiment. Take twenty newborn children, ten males, ten females, and one or two devoted scientists. Take them and isolate them in a self-sufficient colony on some planet (the moon for starters) and raise the children lovingly, making sure they get the physical, emotional, and mental care they need, all the while teaching them the values of a free/libertarian/socialist/what-have-you society. When they're fully grown, allow them to intermarry, et cetera. Inbreeding shouldn't be a problem if'ee start with twenty at the beginning. And then, every generation, see how the population changes. Observation without interference. Follow the friggin' Prime Directive if'ee have to. My prediction is that the utopian society would grow less utopian in nature with each passing generation, until finally, it'd become another extension of our world. With each new set of children, there'd be a little more chance of dissent, chance of the collapse of utopia. It's inevitable that eventually it would collapse anyway. Face it, the human race is a decadent one. We can't govern ourselves without those who govern getting attached to the power. We need to accept that we're not going to find another way out of this. Animal packs have alpha males or females. And how do they change from one dinh to the next? Through d3ath. There is no other way. Forgive my partial netspeak, as my web blocker has run mad. As for the archaic language, if'ee need help, ask or PM. There, I did it again...
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:38 pm
I think my ideal government would be much more localized and customized to the local opinions. Currently, the federal government has so much power it stifles the state & county laws... and tries to force the president & congresses ideals upon the common man a lot more.
In an ideal government, we would all vote for local representatives who actually HAD some political power to customize the laws, policies and governments pending more than they currently do. Then controversial decisions could be decided at a local level and not be such pivotal federal election platforms. Take abortion or marijuana or even the church and state debates... if they were more localized, I think the populace would start to polarize towards states or counties that supported their beliefs. Hell, I know for a fact that if any US state were to legalize marijuana there would be a mass migration. And as long as the people within that state were fine with it, the other states should not have any problems with it.
Nevada seems to be the only state that has more localized laws. But gambling and prostitution are really the only main things they can decide themselves... and I wouldn't be surprised if the federal government tried to quash that in the next 10 years anyways.
It would also be wise to make a government that resets itself at regular intervals & requires politicians to live at the same level as the "average" citizen. I know there is a country in africa where the president must drive a pick-up truck and he gets paid a meager salary. The president & congressmen should not live like royalty. Does ANYONE truly need over $200,000 a year salary? Or even over $100,000 as an individual? In the private sector is one thing, but in the PUBLIC sector where WE the people are paying these outrageous wages?? And we also put them in charge of their own raises. What the hell's up with that!?
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:48 am
I have arguments for you, ochimaru...but...I'm not interested in being awake today. When, if ever, I awake from this soul-sucking state of mind, if I don't remember, remind me. I have arguments.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:32 pm
aaarhus "the government that is best governs least, if at all" That reminds me of another quote.. How did it go? "People are like sheep. If you let them think they're the ones leading, they'll let you lead them anwhere." That's not how it went, but that's what it said. Basically, I'm of the opinion that any government works that the people are familiar with. So long as they are governed fairly and treated well, it shouldn't matter if it's a small kingdom or a huge a** democracy.
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