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 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:29 pm
I'm not opposed to honey, but I don't really eat it much anyway.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:40 pm
I consider myself a vegan, but I eat honey.
I won't get into the reasons, because everything I have to say has already been posted in this thread, but I will say this: it's crazy annoying when people say that I'm not a vegan because I eat honey. I get why they would, but the term "vegan" is hardly precise in the first place. neutral
A special message for those who get super mad about honey:
Lighten up, lovelies. <3 We're in this veg*n thing together.
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:01 am
I'm just wondering if you can clarify what you said about the term vegan not being precise?
Bees are living creatures. It is exploiting a living thing for human purposes.
Bees attempt to sting the humans stealing their honey, and when bees sting, they die soon afterwards. So not only is it exploiting them, it is killing them in the process.
Add on top of that, the situation of Colony Collapse, which no one really knows yet what is causing it, we don't need all these bees dying just so we can have a little honey in our tea. Definitely not vegan.
A super special, vegan to vegan message: Agave nectar. Usually in the baking aisle. No bees die in the harvesting.
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:54 am
deathpixie I'm just wondering if you can clarify what you said about the term vegan not being precise? Bees are living creatures. It is exploiting a living thing for human purposes. Bees attempt to sting the humans stealing their honey, and when bees sting, they die soon afterwards. So not only is it exploiting them, it is killing them in the process. Add on top of that, the situation of Colony Collapse, which no one really knows yet what is causing it, we don't need all these bees dying just so we can have a little honey in our tea. Definitely not vegan. A super special, vegan to vegan message: Agave nectar. Usually in the baking aisle. No bees die in the harvesting. I mean, it's impossible to not consume any animals whatsoever, or live a life that is 100% cruelty-free. For example, certain amounts of bugs get crushed in the preparation of vegan breakfast cereal, because it's impossible to sift them all out of grain. Some sort of dead animal is used in the production of tires for cars and busses, and although I'm not eating these tires I support the rubber wheel as an aid to transportation. I am all for a certain amount of animal testing--the alternatives are to slow the advance of science or to test on humans or to not test at all. The drugs we take for pain, depression, whatever, often have some sort of dead animal component, but I'm not going to stop taking my medication because of it. These are extreme examples that are hard to avoid, I know, but my point is that there are different degrees of veganism, and that no one can be the "perfect vegan". Besides, it's far more handy to say "I'm a vegan" than to say "I'm a vegetarian who also doesn't eat eggs or dairy products or any animal products except honey, which I am okay with." It's not like I haven't thought about the honey issue, it's just that it honestly doesn't bother me. I don't have anything against vegans who give up honey, I just get very annoyed with the preachy ones, for the same reasons that everyone does. We all have different beliefs about the role of animals in society, and sometimes vegans get frustrated with ovo-lacto-vegetarians, and veg*ns get all preachy about meat, and we basically all make asses of ourselves. I'm tired. I hope that made sense.
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:17 am
xtoo many unicornsx deathpixie I'm just wondering if you can clarify what you said about the term vegan not being precise? Bees are living creatures. It is exploiting a living thing for human purposes. Bees attempt to sting the humans stealing their honey, and when bees sting, they die soon afterwards. So not only is it exploiting them, it is killing them in the process. Add on top of that, the situation of Colony Collapse, which no one really knows yet what is causing it, we don't need all these bees dying just so we can have a little honey in our tea. Definitely not vegan. A super special, vegan to vegan message: Agave nectar. Usually in the baking aisle. No bees die in the harvesting. I mean, it's impossible to not consume any animals whatsoever, or live a life that is 100% cruelty-free. For example, certain amounts of bugs get crushed in the preparation of vegan breakfast cereal, because it's impossible to sift them all out of grain. Some sort of dead animal is used in the production of tires for cars and busses, and although I'm not eating these tires I support the rubber wheel as an aid to transportation. I am all for a certain amount of animal testing--the alternatives are to slow the advance of science or to test on humans or to not test at all. The drugs we take for pain, depression, whatever, often have some sort of dead animal component, but I'm not going to stop taking my medication because of it. These are extreme examples that are hard to avoid, I know, but my point is that there are different degrees of veganism, and that no one can be the "perfect vegan". Besides, it's far more handy to say "I'm a vegan" than to say "I'm a vegetarian who also doesn't eat eggs or dairy products or any animal products except honey, which I am okay with." It's not like I haven't thought about the honey issue, it's just that it honestly doesn't bother me. I don't have anything against vegans who give up honey, I just get very annoyed with the preachy ones, for the same reasons that everyone does. We all have different beliefs about the role of animals in society, and sometimes vegans get frustrated with ovo-lacto-vegetarians, and veg*ns get all preachy about meat, and we basically all make asses of ourselves. I'm tired. I hope that made sense. I understand what you mean. Thanks for clarifying. You're right, because we live in a non vegan world, there are things that we have no choice in. Being vegan is not so much about being purist -because it's nearly impossible- but doing the best you can under the circumstances. If you need to take a medication or you will get really sick, take it. There are no alternative right now, so we have no choice. However, honey is one of those things that we do have a choice not to use. No doctor is going to tell you "You need to eat honey once a day or you will die."
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:09 am
deathpixie xtoo many unicornsx deathpixie I'm just wondering if you can clarify what you said about the term vegan not being precise? Bees are living creatures. It is exploiting a living thing for human purposes. Bees attempt to sting the humans stealing their honey, and when bees sting, they die soon afterwards. So not only is it exploiting them, it is killing them in the process. Add on top of that, the situation of Colony Collapse, which no one really knows yet what is causing it, we don't need all these bees dying just so we can have a little honey in our tea. Definitely not vegan. A super special, vegan to vegan message: Agave nectar. Usually in the baking aisle. No bees die in the harvesting. I mean, it's impossible to not consume any animals whatsoever, or live a life that is 100% cruelty-free. For example, certain amounts of bugs get crushed in the preparation of vegan breakfast cereal, because it's impossible to sift them all out of grain. Some sort of dead animal is used in the production of tires for cars and busses, and although I'm not eating these tires I support the rubber wheel as an aid to transportation. I am all for a certain amount of animal testing--the alternatives are to slow the advance of science or to test on humans or to not test at all. The drugs we take for pain, depression, whatever, often have some sort of dead animal component, but I'm not going to stop taking my medication because of it. These are extreme examples that are hard to avoid, I know, but my point is that there are different degrees of veganism, and that no one can be the "perfect vegan". Besides, it's far more handy to say "I'm a vegan" than to say "I'm a vegetarian who also doesn't eat eggs or dairy products or any animal products except honey, which I am okay with." It's not like I haven't thought about the honey issue, it's just that it honestly doesn't bother me. I don't have anything against vegans who give up honey, I just get very annoyed with the preachy ones, for the same reasons that everyone does. We all have different beliefs about the role of animals in society, and sometimes vegans get frustrated with ovo-lacto-vegetarians, and veg*ns get all preachy about meat, and we basically all make asses of ourselves. I'm tired. I hope that made sense. I understand what you mean. Thanks for clarifying. You're right, because we live in a non vegan world, there are things that we have no choice in. Being vegan is not so much about being purist -because it's nearly impossible- but doing the best you can under the circumstances. If you need to take a medication or you will get really sick, take it. There are no alternative right now, so we have no choice. However, honey is one of those things that we do have a choice not to use. No doctor is going to tell you "You need to eat honey once a day or you will die." That's true. I guess what I was thinking but didn't communicate so well was that it's sort of a matter of how committed you are to veganism, or how far you want to go with it. For me, the biggest thing is not eating products from fish, mammals and birds, but I tend to dismiss insects as not as important, even though a lot of people disagree with me and I can see why. neutral I'm not a vegan in some respects, but *all* my friends are omni so I never really have to clarify. (Like, I'll buy wool if it's made cruelty-free. It's still exploiting animals for human use, but it's not hurting them in my opinion.)
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:52 pm
Personally, I do not consume honey. I feel as if humans have no reason to benefit from animals.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:29 pm
xtoo many unicornsx deathpixie xtoo many unicornsx deathpixie I'm just wondering if you can clarify what you said about the term vegan not being precise? Bees are living creatures. It is exploiting a living thing for human purposes. Bees attempt to sting the humans stealing their honey, and when bees sting, they die soon afterwards. So not only is it exploiting them, it is killing them in the process. Add on top of that, the situation of Colony Collapse, which no one really knows yet what is causing it, we don't need all these bees dying just so we can have a little honey in our tea. Definitely not vegan. A super special, vegan to vegan message: Agave nectar. Usually in the baking aisle. No bees die in the harvesting. I mean, it's impossible to not consume any animals whatsoever, or live a life that is 100% cruelty-free. For example, certain amounts of bugs get crushed in the preparation of vegan breakfast cereal, because it's impossible to sift them all out of grain. Some sort of dead animal is used in the production of tires for cars and busses, and although I'm not eating these tires I support the rubber wheel as an aid to transportation. I am all for a certain amount of animal testing--the alternatives are to slow the advance of science or to test on humans or to not test at all. The drugs we take for pain, depression, whatever, often have some sort of dead animal component, but I'm not going to stop taking my medication because of it. These are extreme examples that are hard to avoid, I know, but my point is that there are different degrees of veganism, and that no one can be the "perfect vegan". Besides, it's far more handy to say "I'm a vegan" than to say "I'm a vegetarian who also doesn't eat eggs or dairy products or any animal products except honey, which I am okay with." It's not like I haven't thought about the honey issue, it's just that it honestly doesn't bother me. I don't have anything against vegans who give up honey, I just get very annoyed with the preachy ones, for the same reasons that everyone does. We all have different beliefs about the role of animals in society, and sometimes vegans get frustrated with ovo-lacto-vegetarians, and veg*ns get all preachy about meat, and we basically all make asses of ourselves. I'm tired. I hope that made sense. I understand what you mean. Thanks for clarifying. You're right, because we live in a non vegan world, there are things that we have no choice in. Being vegan is not so much about being purist -because it's nearly impossible- but doing the best you can under the circumstances. If you need to take a medication or you will get really sick, take it. There are no alternative right now, so we have no choice. However, honey is one of those things that we do have a choice not to use. No doctor is going to tell you "You need to eat honey once a day or you will die." That's true. I guess what I was thinking but didn't communicate so well was that it's sort of a matter of how committed you are to veganism, or how far you want to go with it. For me, the biggest thing is not eating products from fish, mammals and birds, but I tend to dismiss insects as not as important, even though a lot of people disagree with me and I can see why. neutral I'm not a vegan in some respects, but *all* my friends are omni so I never really have to clarify. (Like, I'll buy wool if it's made cruelty-free. It's still exploiting animals for human use, but it's not hurting them in my opinion.) Please look up exactly how wool is made. It does hurt the sheep. When talking to non-vegans about veganism, sure, honey is not the first thing you mention to them, but it is still the exploitation of an animal. Bees are intelligent and so are most insects. This will sound ridiculous to someone who is still trying to wrap their heads around animals being intelligent, but it is nonetheless true. We cannot just make these creatures ours to use.
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:19 pm
Although some of my foods have honey, I am in the process of teaching my mother to try not to buy honey-sweetened things (especially bread). But anyways, if they're being exploited, then that's out.
I get irritated when people don't see bees as animals, but rather, as an annoying pest or something like that. I don't like to see animal activists or anyone who believes in vegan ethics to suddenly hate bees or insects / spiders in general. They're animals, and to hate them and to be vegan at the same time is.. kind of hypocritical. It's rather sad that bees are overlooked upon as if they were nothing to care about. I think their lives are just as precious as a cow's, pig's, chicken's.. etc.
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