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 Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:52 pm
Blessed Blade So it's based on babylonian mythology AND has unhealthy doses of Christian imagery? I'm crying fowl. It's hollow, it's shallow, it's meaningless. It's surface allusion, showcasing nothing but the writer's ability to slam together disjointed, hardly related religious symbols because he can't think of a proper ending. One word: tang. Human beings turn into tang. And let's get into some other things that make it shallow. If the angels are other possibilities that humans could have become, why don't they look like primates? With these creatures being what they are, it completely disregards the actual roots human beings have, and all the evolutionary and biological elements that actual make us human. These monsters don't have psychological relevance because they don't actually represent us; they're nothing more than nifty designs and cool challenges for what starts off essentially as a monster of the week series. The only part I found even remotely personal was the bicuriosity implied in Shinji's relationship with Kaworu. Everyone (Shinji included, save that one interesting aspect) was nothing more than a character archetype with single important backstory elements bumping against each other in an unbelievable and shallow giant robot drama. Yes, because christian imagery sells in japan. There's nothing wrong with slamming some mythology to spice up the storyline BB, it gives people something to relate to, and gives some mysticism to it. Well in babylonian mythology, there are that many angels, so they wanted to add a twist by saying that they were other versions of what we could become, although this is demonstrated in the later angels well. No, it doesn't follow evolution BB, it follows how mythology claimed the world came to be, hence it ends the way it does, in a large clumping of souls, with a man and a woman left to repopulate the new earth. They're not trying to be accurate, they're trying to show something x.x; The characters are probably my favorite part! they all seem to have triangle relationships with each other, each character representing a different aspect in each triangle. The mother, the woman, the scientist. The id, the ego, the super ego. Freud's theories heavily influenced the characters (They blatantly show separation anxiety on the screen when they're ******** asuka), adding a lot of depth to them (If you try to look). BB, if you see it as shallow, it'll be shallow, but if you dig into this series, you find a lot of meanings (Which I admit, have NOTHING to do with the storyline, they have to do with character relationships). I mean, when they speak of how everyone has an AT(anti-terror) field, that being the wall to their hearts. The way they describe how the human soul has a void that we are endlessly trying to fill, they're all very interesting theories x.x; A lot of the things they touch are very basic philosophy, but I saw it when I was in the middle of my teens, and watching it again, I can just admire all the work that was put into it, and noticing how the storyline starts going nuts after episode 14. I dunno BB, everyone that watches it with me, and I explain to them all the depth there is to it, they're amazed o.o;
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:37 pm
You don't have to be so nice, Neit. I'm outright and incorrigibly attacking a piece of art you very much like. Demand more of my thoughts. I throw out adjectives like they're articles; attack!
Characters:
Shinji: coward type; dad's a d**k and mom's dead (dead parent is the most overused trope in anime)
Asuka: intelligent bombastic female type; mom killed herself (dead parent is the most overused trope in anime)
Rei: personality-less clone; blue hair
Dr Ikari: sumtotal of personality: resting chin on interweaved fingers with light reflecting off his glasses
Dr. Akagi: In love with Dr. Ikari; mother's brain is in a computer (dead parent is the most overused trope in anime)
Here, I'll give you this: Shinji is a fairly decent character at least it terms of how he reacts to things. He meets an overbearing character, he's a weakling; he's pressured by his dad, he freaks out but does it anyway; he basically falls in love with another boy despite being essentially straight (that takes guts to put in a story, especially in Japan where homosexuality is suppressed at every possible juncture). Shinji is a good character, but while his reactions are decent, he's inevitably poorly written. What are his hobbies? What does he do when he's not fighting angels and cumming on Asuka's unconscious body (how the ******** did those other countries manage to produce all those identical evas, and deploy them simultaneously? Diablos ex machina!)
But here's my point in calling it shallow. The Christian imagery/myth pasted on Babylonian mythology invalidates any artistic message the show might have trying to make. If the Angels and the End Of The World with one man and one woman is primary focus of the series then the Christian imagery needs to go. If they're willing to alienate their viewer base with endings like "Congratulations", then they should have dumped the Christian imagery and stuck with their Babylonian stuff, otherwise it's a mixed metaphor, or more accurately, a mixed extended metaphor (mixed allegory, if you will); mixed metaphors are one of the biggest no-no's in writing, and I imagine that the lack of any reference to mixed allegories in writing texts is attributable to no writing teacher having ever thought it necessary to mention not to do something so contrived. Or, if the point is the mixed Babylonian and Christian myths, then that needs to be THE POINT. You know, that idea seems way more interesting to me than some contrived bullshit about some pubescent archetypes piloting giant robots.
Anyway, so it's Babylonian myth with Christian imagery plastered all over it. What does that mean? What does the world ending with Shinji strangling Asuka in front of an ocean made out of tang/primordial ooz mean, and what does it have to do with the rest of the series? Because from what you're saying, it doesn't actually mean anything.
It's not deep, it's just complicated.
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:43 am
When arguing with friends, I prefer debating like Socrates, where we are both trying to reach the truth about the topic, instead of just choosing sides.
Yes, the way they present the characters suck, but that's only because they're but fragments of people! Shinji is the very indecisive Ego, because he lacks Id and super ego, he has no guidance, he's lost, he's that part of a teenager that is so confused! Everyone has a shinji in them, that little kid in you that just wants to run to mommy when something goes wrong, but mommy's not there (The being dead part is a metaphor), since he finds her in the EVA (The eva representing their adult forms, because as an adult you are shaped by your core personality, and your parent's teachings). Asuka could have been male with the same result, she is proud, impulsive, exotic, blunt, and is the teen sex symbol in the show, she represents the Id, the one thing Shinji really, really wants to do! Rei is his undeveloped super ego (Due to his lack of parenting) so she's just there, but she's his mother's clone, the embodiment of who should be telling him what to do. They are different aspects of the human mind, particularly, shinji's.
The mythology had to do with the name! Neon Genesis Evangelion=New Generation Bible. It's a bloody handbook on how to deal with teen angst! The babylionian mythology is there because it's very raw, even sexual at times, and the christian imagery is there because that's the symbol of repression, which is exacly what goes on during teens, the battle of the Id and Super ego: HORMONES! The entire show's POINT is to show how ******** up human nature is! The old men with money that try to save themselves by investing in some ancient mythology, the man who does it all just to see his dead wife again, the poor innocent souls that are torn apart because of all this, EVA is the tragedy of the human race, and shows psychologically how it all works. It's an emotional and spiritual journey to find out that our brain sucks, it tells you things that aren't necessarily real, and you can change, but at the same time, you have biological impulses and unwritten rules battling for power.
The first ending is when the writer's meds finally started kicking in, and he started getting out of his depression, and he felt like sharing his mental journey through the show. After all the death threats he received for making such a shitty (Because people can't appreciate characters being broken down psychologically, and showing basic philosophical terms) ending, he wrote up another ending, where he got off his medication to write it, producing a really messed up end of the world. It shows how depression makes one feel, how death becomes so appealing because the inner and outer fight in the world is hard to take.
Honestly, I can go on for hours, but I'm hoping you're getting most of my points x.x;
Shinji strangling Asuka? There's many theories, but mine is the fact that human's greatest weakness is desire (The desire to live, to feel, to be with others) because when we don't have those things, or risk losing them, we suffer, so shinji tries to kill his emotions, his desire, but he can't do it, because the human race would lose itself if it did that. Controversially, Asuka calls him disgusting, laying out the view on human nature of this series.
The show was originally intended for teens, but it's young adults who really enjoyed the series, because they could be like "Yeah, I remember when I used to think like that" or "Very interesting use of Freud's psychology, and interesting philosophical theories"
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:38 pm
I don't see any of what you're talking about. How can you say that Shinji represents only Ego when you repeatedly talk about Shinji's Id related sexual desires. How is Asuka supposed to be the Id when she's repressing all her darker energies about her mother's suicide to put on a facade of intelligence and control. The super-ego is the attempt to realize ultimate perfection of the self-- it's a full contradiction of the Id. Therefore Rei is not the Superego, she's nothing at all. This triad you've generated utterly refutes itself by being outright incorrect regarding Rei, and not appropriately fitting to either Shinji or Asuka.
Neon does not mean "new". Neon is an element. Genesis does not mean "generation", it means beginning. The title is nonsense.
If Evangelion is supposed to be a handbook for dealing with teen angst... dear ******** god.
If the show's point was to show how ******** up human nature is, then they could have done a way better job, in my humble opinion. I didn't taste human nature at all. Why? Because nothing about the show was even slightly realistic. Giant robots? Angels? Whatever. I don't buy it. If he wants to show how ******** up people are, there are better, less troperific settings to do it with. The writer didn't know what he wanted the show to be, the same problem Gurren Lagann had. It felt less like an emotional and spiritual journey than like a slightly dark giant robot anime abruptly interrupted by a bad acid trip.
And let's talk about the "writing a different ending while off his meds" stuff. The show should have been 100% written before it was ever put into production. That it wasn't is insulting, very ******** insulting, not only because it disrespects the audience by being unprepared, but it's also the reason the show is schizophrenic to the extreme.
And this "Tragedy of the human race" stuff is nice and all, by why is all life on earth erased? How arrogant do humans have to be to assume that just because we destroy ourselves the rest of the life on the planet goes too? The ONLY POSSIBLE WAY we could kill every living creature on the face of the earth is by detonating all of our nukes in a single location and thus throwing Earth off its rotation around the sun, either causing temperatures to plummet as we move away from, or skyrocket as we move towards the sun. Otherwise human being don't matter one flying ******** in the grand scheme of things. Whatever depth this show could have had invalidates itself by being too arrogant about the place of human to matter. In my opinion, this is just more evidence of the author's lack of perspective: Angels as not primates, human beings as somehow cosmically important.
But let me make one final point: I cannot be expected to take an anime about 13-year-olds pilotting giant robots seriously. Only 1st worlders in the modern era are capable of that level of escapism induced delusion. You want to be taken seriously, don't use overused comedy tropes in a tragedy, and don't insult the audience's intelligence with mixed allegories, meaningless symbolism, and poor preparation.
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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:50 am
Hum, well that's what the characters were supposed to represent according to the director, I can see how some of them don't fit the perfect embodiment of each sphere, but they still have to have quirks to them o.o;
They're japanese, what do they know about neon and genesis? I'm regurgitating what I heard in the commentaries, what the director thought it meant.
It helped a lot of my friends come out of their emo-shell o.o; with the right explanation, it becomes a great way to teach people that they're not the only ones who feel like s**t.
Yes, it's true, they could have done a much better job, but they threw in mythology, comedy, action, and angst, along with tragedy. They certainly didn't follow any structure when it comes to themes. It's supposed to be the dark side of human nature, not the positive side that never gives up. (Except for the ending of episode 26). I mean my story is going to attempt something similar: Show many aspects of life through a fantasy setting that isn't even ON earth.
What's wrong with a little improv? They wanted to just run with it, I see no problem with that, I mean animation is supposed to be fun and artistic :3
Well yes, the show is centered on human nature, not other life o.o; At the end of eva it basically says that we suck, but we still want to live. Humans aren't part of a grand scheme of things, they're very insignificant creatures that are always running around in circles with the same thoughts.
It was honestly just trying to amuse people, then it got all serious, which took them off guard, I liked how they did it, maybe it was all pointless, but they tried to mix in all the pointless things into a mesh of a vague view about life. I understand the fact that it's horribly structured BB, but I like it for that, it's a s**t storm that ends up not being what anyone thought it would be. It's the one show I couldn't predict at all, it's probably one of the main reasons I enjoyed it so much :3
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:10 pm
I have been wanting to watch a new anime series but I can't think of one that would interest me. 0.o
I have heard that Wolf's Rain is pretty good, still haven't looked at it yet.
Has anyone watched it? =)
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:54 pm
Insignificant Moonlight
I have been wanting to watch a new anime series but I can't think of one that would interest me. 0.o
I have heard that Wolf's Rain is pretty good, still haven't looked at it yet.
Has anyone watched it? =)
Personally, I didn't like it at all, I was quite disappointed, but my other friends liked it o-o; Recently watched Bokurano, another one that was hyped up, but I ended up not liking it so much -.o;
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:36 pm
Neitsabes Insignificant Moonlight
I have been wanting to watch a new anime series but I can't think of one that would interest me. 0.o
I have heard that Wolf's Rain is pretty good, still haven't looked at it yet.
Has anyone watched it? =)
Personally, I didn't like it at all, I was quite disappointed, but my other friends liked it o-o; Recently watched Bokurano, another one that was hyped up, but I ended up not liking it so much -.o;
Thanks for letting me know. 3nodding Everyone else i know says it is good as well. I'll probably have to watch to find out for myself. o.0;
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