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4:12 Discipleship Unashamed

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Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, conduct, love, faith, and in purity 

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If abortion is murder, shouldn't the women be prosecuted? Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2

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911child

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:13 pm


essentially yes, killing some one should never be an option. Even a fetus.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:54 pm


Between God and them.

The Wabbit

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Aporeia

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:28 pm


You're asking a loaded question; there's no discussion to be had.

By the legal definition of murder, proper abortion is not and cannot be linked with murder. You are using an emotionally charged word to win an argument, and ignoring the semantic issue entirely.

This is precisely why I dislike anyone and everyone vocal in the abortion issue; it's like a horde of squawking birds on every side. No one is willing to discuss anything on a down to earth and honest manner because their heads are so far between their legs they can french themselves... which is precisely what this thread is doing.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:59 am


IX Odysseia IX
SinfulGuillotine

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...

{Here's my argument against our Court's unsound logic.
If a pregnant mother was hit by a car, either by accident or on purpose, the guilty party would be convicted of either murder or manslaughter on two accounts
(1- for the mother, and 2- for the unborn child)

But somehow... when a mother puts her own child to death its not considered murder OR malicious intent? How is killing a child NOT malicious intent?
}

...
Because for most people seeking abortions, they do not view their foetus as a child. They have no malicious feelings towards it. They may feel maliciously towards their male partner who didn't use a condom or in the worst cases raped her, but she likely feel no malice towards her foetus, because she doesn't see what she's doing as killing a child: she sees it as terminating a pregnancy.

I don't know about the man hitting a pregnant woman and being charged with two counts of vehicular manslaughter. I don't know enough about the case to really use it as a pro or con argument, and I don't even know where it took place. Abortion laws (as well as what rights are given to an unborn foetus) vary widely depending on where you live.

SinfulGuillotine
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SinfulGuillotine
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:07 am


False Dichotomy
You're asking a loaded question; there's no discussion to be had.

By the legal definition of murder, proper abortion is not and cannot be linked with murder. You are using an emotionally charged word to win an argument, and ignoring the semantic issue entirely.

This is precisely why I dislike anyone and everyone vocal in the abortion issue; it's like a horde of squawking birds on every side. No one is willing to discuss anything on a down to earth and honest manner because their heads are so far between their legs they can french themselves... which is precisely what this thread is doing.
Yeah, I'm pretty much in agreement here, perhaps besides the bit about disliking absolutely everyone who has been vocal on the abortion issue.

Abortion debates are frankly, little more than string upon string of fallacious appeals to emotion, on both sides of the fence. Especially calling abortion murder. I realise not everyone's daddy was a lawyer, but while "murder" may be a very emotionally loaded word that gets reactions out of people, it has no place in an abortion discussion. Nothing about abortion has anything to do with murder, whether you're pro-life or pro-choice, that's just a fact.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:20 am


thrashmetaljunkie
Those of you that know me personally, know that abortion is a touchy subject for me. I believe whole heartedly that abortion is murder, and that it is wrong. It effects the male just as much as the female. Let me give you a situation, and see what u think.

3 years ago, I got my gf at the time pregnant. When she told me, I told her everything is ok. Whatever you decide, I'll support you. Wether it be to keep the child, or to give them up for adoption. We decided adoption would be the best course of action. We were both seniors in highschool, I didn't have a job, and neither did she. When she told her parents, and told them what we decided to do, they banned me from the house. I didn't get to see her outside of school, and at this point, the christian school we were going to was condemning us for it. So even though I had some of the same classes with her, I wasnt allowed to sit with her at lunch. I was the one that picked her up in the mornings and took her home after school, I wasn't allowed to do that anymore either. Contact got limited to the internet and our phones. FOr the following month, her parents kept bearing down on her to get an abortion. By the time 2 months went by in the pregnancy, they had threatened to throw her out of the house and cut off all ties with her if she didnt get the abortion. She then told me on the internet, that I had no say in this. She reminded me what I had said in the beginning, that I will support whatever decision she made, and that she was getting an abortion. As much as I had been fighting for that month, it all came to nothing. All I could say was ok. She told me afterwards, the reason her parents insisted on the abortion is because they werent ready to be grandparents.

So here is my question. Situations like these happen all the time. With so much pressure put on the girl, and the man being reduced to very limited contact, is this malicious intent on account of the couple? I am still counseling my ex through this, while myself still suffering. Abortion is not something one should take lightly. This is why i get so uptight when someone starts going "ITS THE RIGHT OF THE GIRL, ITS HER BODY" yea, it's also her soul, and until you have gone through this situation, you have no right to say that abortion is the way to go.
First off, I think it's a little unfair to say that "until you've been through this situation, you have no right to say that abortion is the way to go." I understand that this was a very upsetting situation for both you and your girlfriend, but many other people who have been through equally effed up, albeit different situations exist, and saying that your opinion doesn't count or that you don't even have the right to voice your opinion unless you've been through the exact situation you and your lady faced is pretty self-centred. I'm not trying to be a d**k. I realise that what you and your lady went through was terrible, and my heart goes out to you both, truly. But let's try and have some empathy for others as well, okay?

Getting (someone) pregnant while still under the age of majority and while still living with your parents does have to be one of the most unfortunate situations a teen can find themselves in. Supportive parents in these sorts of situations do exist, but they are definitely few and far between. The moment the girl tells her folks, she pretty much signs away the fate of her foetus and her own bodily rights to them. Either she will be forced to carry, birth, and raise a child she doesn't want, which is just a no-win situation, or she's forced to have an abortion she doesn't want, which is also no-win.

And of course the male part of the equation is pretty much treated like some sort of evil incubus who seduced Mummy and Daddy's precious, innocent little girl and knocked her up on purpose for the sole reason of ruining her life.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm happy to hear you and the girl are still friends. Can't imagine what she's been going through, but you're both lucky to at least have each other as a support system. If you ever need to talk...well, you should know by now that my inbox is always open, and that goes for all guild members.

Now seems like as good a time as any to tell my abortion story. And I know what a lot of you are probably thinking: How could Enj possibly have an abortion story? He doesn't even sleep with women, how could he knock one up? Did he slip in a dark room or what?

No, children, my "abortion" story is actually my conception story as well. When my mother was 18, she and her family were on holiday in Saint-Tropez. One night, someone slipped into her hotel room and raped her at knifepoint. She had no idea who he was, didn't even get a good look at him, and just assumed he was probably either another guest or a member of the staff, since the window was closed and there were no signs that the door had been forced open.

She and my (paternal) father were an item at the time, and he was the only person she told. When she realised she was pregnant, she really only had two options: Slip away for a couple days an discretely get an abortion, or marry my dad as soon as possible and pass the child off as a product of their honeymoon love-making. Her parents had made it very clear that if she ever conceived a child out of wedlock, she would be disowned from the family forever, and she knew that they weren't just blowing smoke. Several years earlier, her older sister became pregnant by her boyfriend. Since she was below the age of majority, her parents sent her to one of those places where rich people send their young, pregnant daughters where they're looked after and given proper medical care throughout their pregnancy and a proper doctor is on call to aid with childbirth. After the child is born and the mother gets to hold them for a few minutes, they're whisked away to a family who has already arranged to adopt the baby as soon as it is born. There was no consent given from the mother since she was a minor, and many of the girls there, my mother's sister included, had no idea that their children were adopted in most cases before they were even born.

Within the week or so that this facility keeps the girls to give them post-childbirth (post-natal?) care, my mother's sister had her birthday, making her no longer a minor, and she had her boyfriend pick her up from the facility. The family never heard from her again.

Even though my mother was no a minor, she was still terrified of what might happen if her parents found out she was pregnant and unmarried. Even if she told them the truth, that it was rape, they would have assumed she was lying and that a) my paternal father had knocked her up, and/or b) that she was just a wild slut spreading her legs for anyone and everyone. They were not very nice people, my grandparents.

Anyway, my mother and paternal father decided to get married as soon as possible. I think a part of my mother wished that she'd gone through with the abortion, despite it being very, very against her religion and personal convictions, but the fact that my paternal father was so excited about having a kid helped to convince her she was doing the right thing. So she married my paternal father, and when I was born, nobody was suspicious. Everyone just thought it was a normal young couple starting their family. confused

SinfulGuillotine
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4:12 Discipleship Unashamed

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