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 Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:41 pm
I feel sometimes we're looking at the wrong side of the equation here. Let me give you an example, if I may.
My husband worked for a man who has multiple lawsuits against him for discrimination of all sorts. He regularly abused his employees. Now Wilson, who got it worst than most, had no way to go to a lawyer for such abuse. He was not in the 'protected' class of people. If he were either African American or a female, he would have been set. Now, I personally do not believe this is fair for him. Yes, he's a white male in the US. But he still should have a right to punish the man who almost gave him a heart attack.
Sometimes we make rules to even the playing field, but it penalizes others in the process.
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:16 am
Matasoga Lady-Sanctuary I also think saying we don't need feminism anymore is a bit silly, I've come across a fair deal of sexism and while I can deal with it I think I shouldn't have too. There will always be sexist individuals. Feminism's utility as a movement cannot be judged by sexist individuals. It is still needed, but we've rather less left to do in the US than in other places. There are very few legal ways to discriminate against women, at least not based on gender, here. Right now, we just have to keep voting democrat and hope that enough others do that we don't start legislating women's reproductive rights. Of course other places, especially theocracies, have women placed rather firmly under their boot heel. Only the government or organizations can necessitate the need for feminism, not sexist individuals. Hell in Ireland there is no way to disallow groups with enough money to post anti-abortion posters. Particularly in your face ones as well.
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:31 pm
Lady-Sanctuary Matasoga Lady-Sanctuary I also think saying we don't need feminism anymore is a bit silly, I've come across a fair deal of sexism and while I can deal with it I think I shouldn't have too. There will always be sexist individuals. Feminism's utility as a movement cannot be judged by sexist individuals. It is still needed, but we've rather less left to do in the US than in other places. There are very few legal ways to discriminate against women, at least not based on gender, here. Right now, we just have to keep voting democrat and hope that enough others do that we don't start legislating women's reproductive rights. Of course other places, especially theocracies, have women placed rather firmly under their boot heel. Only the government or organizations can necessitate the need for feminism, not sexist individuals. Hell in Ireland there is no way to disallow groups with enough money to post anti-abortion posters. Particularly in your face ones as well. As well there shouldn't be. In the US, we view one of our most sacred rights as freedom of speech. Utilizing that in an unpleasant way doesn't and shouldn't make one a criminal, but it may just make one an a*****e.
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:31 am
Matasoga Lady-Sanctuary Matasoga Lady-Sanctuary I also think saying we don't need feminism anymore is a bit silly, I've come across a fair deal of sexism and while I can deal with it I think I shouldn't have too. There will always be sexist individuals. Feminism's utility as a movement cannot be judged by sexist individuals. It is still needed, but we've rather less left to do in the US than in other places. There are very few legal ways to discriminate against women, at least not based on gender, here. Right now, we just have to keep voting democrat and hope that enough others do that we don't start legislating women's reproductive rights. Of course other places, especially theocracies, have women placed rather firmly under their boot heel. Only the government or organizations can necessitate the need for feminism, not sexist individuals. Hell in Ireland there is no way to disallow groups with enough money to post anti-abortion posters. Particularly in your face ones as well. As well there shouldn't be. In the US, we view one of our most sacred rights as freedom of speech. Utilizing that in an unpleasant way doesn't and shouldn't make one a criminal, but it may just make one an a*****e. Almost anyone who utilizes that freedom looks like an a*****e...but it's mainly how they go around it. Like the Phelps for example. Their message is all about God...which we have a lot of here in the US and most groups are not that bad but because the Phelps do it with those terrible signs and songs and actually believe what their signs say...they are assholes that I hate.
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:38 am
Sinful Nana I feel sometimes we're looking at the wrong side of the equation here. Let me give you an example, if I may. My husband worked for a man who has multiple lawsuits against him for discrimination of all sorts. He regularly abused his employees. Now Wilson, who got it worst than most, had no way to go to a lawyer for such abuse. He was not in the 'protected' class of people. If he were either African American or a female, he would have been set. Now, I personally do not believe this is fair for him. Yes, he's a white male in the US. But he still should have a right to punish the man who almost gave him a heart attack. Sometimes we make rules to even the playing field, but it penalizes others in the process. That seems insane. I hate that that's how things are going. I honestly cannot see (Not matter how naive this makes me sound) why we can't just judge people as people without taking all this perceived stuff into account.
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:30 am
Lil Candy Princess I believe that women are only to be equal to men in a certain degree. Men are meant to be head of household and support their family and provide for them. Women are meant to take care of their husband's wishes. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to that. Out of curiosity, how would that work for same-sex couples, or for a couple where one or both identifies as genderqueer?
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:06 am
Taeryyn Lil Candy Princess I believe that women are only to be equal to men in a certain degree. Men are meant to be head of household and support their family and provide for them. Women are meant to take care of their husband's wishes. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to that. Out of curiosity, how would that work for same-sex couples, or for a couple where one or both identifies as genderqueer? I think that's up to the couple. In the past when I was in a same sex relationship I usually worked and we would share house chores. I personally prefer to spoil my significant other and that is how most of the girls I dated preferred it to be as well. Every relationship is different though. In the end it's just how they choose to make it work.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:24 am
Lil Candy Princess Taeryyn Lil Candy Princess I believe that women are only to be equal to men in a certain degree. Men are meant to be head of household and support their family and provide for them. Women are meant to take care of their husband's wishes. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to that. Out of curiosity, how would that work for same-sex couples, or for a couple where one or both identifies as genderqueer? I think that's up to the couple. In the past when I was in a same sex relationship I usually worked and we would share house chores. I personally prefer to spoil my significant other and that is how most of the girls I dated preferred it to be as well. Every relationship is different though. In the end it's just how they choose to make it work. I agree. That's quite a different tone than your initial post, though. "Women are meant to take care of their husband's wishes." Meant to. That's a very definite way of putting it. That's why I was curious, because it not only implies that a woman is supposed to get married to a man, but that they're also supposed to be subservient to him. From your follow-up, I'm assuming that isn't how you meant it at all. Â I also wanted to address the rest of your post now that I have some time. Specifically the part where you mentioned that you aren't sure what feminists today have to "complain" about. While I'm happy things are going so swimmingly for you, surely you are aware that things are not nearly so dandy for women elsewhere? Any issue that targets women is something a feminist might be interested in. Â Off the top of my head, that includes things like: -The attack on women's reproductive rights, in the US (and Canada, to a lesser extent) -The lack of women who are engaged in our political system -Funding and management of shelters -The prohibition against female priests in some religions -Human trafficking -The legalization or decriminalization of prostitution -Slut shaming -Women's health clinics -Female circumcision -Educating women in the developing world -Equal rights in any of the many countries in which women are considered inferior to men -Hell, women's lit or art. Â Anyway, maybe we can work on getting that silver platter when so many of you are less likely to be raped, beaten, or killed just because you have a v****a. wink
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:46 am
Taeryyn Lil Candy Princess Taeryyn Lil Candy Princess I believe that women are only to be equal to men in a certain degree. Men are meant to be head of household and support their family and provide for them. Women are meant to take care of their husband's wishes. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to that. Out of curiosity, how would that work for same-sex couples, or for a couple where one or both identifies as genderqueer? I think that's up to the couple. In the past when I was in a same sex relationship I usually worked and we would share house chores. I personally prefer to spoil my significant other and that is how most of the girls I dated preferred it to be as well. Every relationship is different though. In the end it's just how they choose to make it work. I agree. That's quite a different tone than your initial post, though. "Women are meant to take care of their husband's wishes." Meant to. That's a very definite way of putting it. That's why I was curious, because it not only implies that a woman is supposed to get married to a man, but that they're also supposed to be subservient to him. From your follow-up, I'm assuming that isn't how you meant it at all. Â I also wanted to address the rest of your post now that I have some time. Specifically the part where you mentioned that you aren't sure what feminists today have to "complain" about. While I'm happy things are going so swimmingly for you, surely you are aware that things are not nearly so dandy for women elsewhere? Any issue that targets women is something a feminist might be interested in. Â Off the top of my head, that includes things like: -The attack on women's reproductive rights, in the US (and Canada, to a lesser extent) -The lack of women who are engaged in our political system -Funding and management of shelters -The prohibition against female priests in some religions -Human trafficking -The legalization or decriminalization of prostitution -Slut shaming -Women's health clinics -Female circumcision -Educating women in the developing world -Equal rights in any of the many countries in which women are considered inferior to men -Hell, women's lit or art. Â Anyway, maybe we can work on getting that silver platter when so many of you are less likely to be raped, beaten, or killed just because you have a v****a. wink No I did not mean it that way at all. I am married to a male. So I said it that way due to my circumstances. I am completely 100% all for same sex marriage and couples. Some of the things you mentioned for women to complain about I do understand but others I personally have different opinion on. I although do not believe that throwing a public fit is the way to fix your problems. And just because someone does that in public obviously shows that you don't get what you want just so you will stop. Look at WBC again for example. They want everyone to believe in God. Believe that God hates soldiers and ICDs are Gods gift and all sorts of other cooky crap. Could you imagine if we all were forced to live by their low standards simply cause they protested? And even though it's not very common men are also raped, beaten, and killed....that must be just because they have a p***s. If of anything women should really learn self defense and gun safety in my opinion.
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:30 am
Who said anything about throwing a fit in public..? The things I listed are just potential points of interest or concern for those that are feminists (among others). Being a feminist just means that you believe that women deserve equal rights, not that you're out in the streets making noise. Of course there are extremists in any group (your example of the WBC for instance) but they are not the majority.
Of course men also get assaulted, and self-defense lessons are cool. What does that have to do with this, though? You asked what feminists could be concerned about, and I listed examples.
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:45 pm
I am a feminist, and I am one because I believe in gender equality. The word "feminist" is awfully misunderstood these days, and gets used to describe people who are actually female supremacists and/or misandrists, which is irritating, but it doesn't negate the fact that there are still plenty of issues left to be concerned about. The fact that so many women think we have nothing to be concerned about and that wanting equality somehow means that we want "special" rights? Yeah, that's actually exactly why there are still people who identify as feminists. razz
Holy s**t, I feel dirty necroing a thread that's been dead for a year, despite being encouraged to do so.
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:59 am
Right. I can finally weigh in on Feminism, after spending a few years being a little afraid to be seen as one of "those" women. What actually got me thinking about this was GamerGate.
I listen to a podcast called Isometric, and one of the presenters on it is Brianna Wu, who is a game developer who is pretty much at the centre of GamerGate. Over the past eight months or so, she has been receiving death threats and the like from people who are opposed to women in gaming, game development and the like. Being a gamer myself, this has struck pretty close to home as I have been harassed on game sites and online forums (including Gaia, would you believe) for being a woman. It's quite something to be fifteen and having men demand photos of your boobs, as I'm sure quite a few people can relate to. I've been fetishised as a "girl gamer", and had people tell me that I shouldn't love games because I'm a girl. So, long story short, a couple of months ago, I declared myself a feminist. Who LOVES games.
Not everyone was supportive - my boyfriend and male boss in particular. I've had to weather comments regarding killing all men and the like, which was actually quite sad. My boyfriend said to me "I'm fine with you being a feminist, just don't go overboard with it, okay?", while my boss said "Oh, you don't want to be one of them do you?"
HELL YES I WANT TO BE ONE OF THEM, AND WON'T BE QUIET ABOUT IT ANYMORE. biggrin
I believe in gender equality, I believe in women's rights, and above all, I believe feminism is right.
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:25 am
Kristabelle015 Right. I can finally weigh in on Feminism, after spending a few years being a little afraid to be seen as one of "those" women. What actually got me thinking about this was GamerGate. I listen to a podcast called Isometric, and one of the presenters on it is Brianna Wu, who is a game developer who is pretty much at the centre of GamerGate. Over the past eight months or so, she has been receiving death threats and the like from people who are opposed to women in gaming, game development and the like. Being a gamer myself, this has struck pretty close to home as I have been harassed on game sites and online forums (including Gaia, would you believe) for being a woman. It's quite something to be fifteen and having men demand photos of your boobs, as I'm sure quite a few people can relate to. I've been fetishised as a "girl gamer", and had people tell me that I shouldn't love games because I'm a girl. So, long story short, a couple of months ago, I declared myself a feminist. Who LOVES games. Not everyone was supportive - my boyfriend and male boss in particular. I've had to weather comments regarding killing all men and the like, which was actually quite sad. My boyfriend said to me "I'm fine with you being a feminist, just don't go overboard with it, okay?", while my boss said "Oh, you don't want to be one of them do you?" HELL YES I WANT TO BE ONE OF THEM, AND WON'T BE QUIET ABOUT IT ANYMORE. biggrin I believe in gender equality, I believe in women's rights, and above all, I believe feminism is right. Interesting that you should mention a "them." Feminism is, absolutely right. It is, without question, no ethical reason not to support it. If there is a "them," it is the fringe group that call themselves "radical feminists," and they are not at all feminists. Feminism's ultimamte goal is gender equality. The people that have stolen the term are, by all appearances unabashed female supremacists. Too see what I mean, a quick tour of Tumblr will show you dozens of examples. So-called radical feminism is the biggest threat to all the goals of feminism by dragging real feminism to the margins and associating it with more sexism and hate.
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:49 am
Matasoga Interesting that you should mention a "them." Feminism is, absolutely right. It is, without question, no ethical reason not to support it. If there is a "them," it is the fringe group that call themselves "radical feminists," and they are not at all feminists. Feminism's ultimamte goal is gender equality. The people that have stolen the term are, by all appearances unabashed female supremacists. Too see what I mean, a quick tour of Tumblr will show you dozens of examples. So-called radical feminism is the biggest threat to all the goals of feminism by dragging real feminism to the margins and associating it with more sexism and hate. Exactly. My boss and boyfriend both believe that the only feminists are extremists. When my boss said that to me, I looked at him from behind my computer and said "EXCUSE ME?!" He back-pedalled pretty quickly, but the damage was done. All because I was reading a book about gender double-standards. It's a very good book, and I was excited to tell him about it. I never realised that he was so closed-minded.
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:01 pm
Kristabelle015 Matasoga Interesting that you should mention a "them." Feminism is, absolutely right. It is, without question, no ethical reason not to support it. If there is a "them," it is the fringe group that call themselves "radical feminists," and they are not at all feminists. Feminism's ultimamte goal is gender equality. The people that have stolen the term are, by all appearances unabashed female supremacists. Too see what I mean, a quick tour of Tumblr will show you dozens of examples. So-called radical feminism is the biggest threat to all the goals of feminism by dragging real feminism to the margins and associating it with more sexism and hate. Exactly. My boss and boyfriend both believe that the only feminists are extremists. When my boss said that to me, I looked at him from behind my computer and said "EXCUSE ME?!" He back-pedalled pretty quickly, but the damage was done. All because I was reading a book about gender double-standards. It's a very good book, and I was excited to tell him about it. I never realised that he was so closed-minded. Sometimes with anti-feminist viewpoints, it really is just about education. A calm "now why do you think that?" approach just might change a few minds. Then again, sometime it is just about hating women and/or thinking them simply lesser or at the very least shouldn't be involved in certain activities, jobs, or areas of society. These people aren't nearly as easy to fix.
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