real eyes realize
To the prophets, it may have just been physical, but not to YHWH, the one speaking through them/giving them the words to speak. It seems like you're forgetting that YHWH gave his prophets the words to speak in the first place (Jn 3:34 or comparing Deu 5:22-27 and Ex 24 when the whole crowd of people clearly heard YHWH's words and agreed to those words; the covenant was first agreed to verbally by the whole assembly, YHWH spoke in the hearing of everyone, then Moses went to get the tablets. The people didn't want to hear the voice again though so they told Moses to relay the messages instead; hence, speaking through prophets came about).
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Also remember that it was YHWH moving the Gentile nations to come against Israel (2 Chronicles 24:24, Jeremiah 44:30) or using Israel to drive the Gentiles away in defeat (Joshua 8:18, Judges 1:4). Whether it was a ritual or an actual battle or a prophecy yet to be fulfilled, of course it's all related to the spiritual, everything he does ultimately is to convey something about the spiritual kingdom. Do you disregard these verses: Isaiah 46:8-10 Remember this, fix it in mind, take it to heart, you rebels. Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. --- YHWH's words, not Isaiah's personal interpretations. The "end" made known from the "beginning". How? By speaking lies? No. By telling the truth and building on it, continuing to reveal more and more details, using physical demonstrations if need be to demonstrate what will come to pass, "prophecy" not just in text or vision (ergo, stoning, marriage, and festivals—actions and rituals—being prophetic).
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Yes. They were following Yeshua passing through a field. He doesn't cease teaching on the Sabbath. Again, if you're following Yeshua, you don't stone anymore. How we deal with sin is a prophecy all on its own: in the Kingdom, no one will be stoning anyone, sinners don't live there. Its inhabitants have been healed of their sinful ways and pardoned for their wickedness, they'll be living in bodies that have no urge to sin. If you're in his vicinity in the future, inside of his city, there's no reason for you to get stoned. Those living outside the city, not in his presence, are still sinful though (Rev 22:15).
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It was right for Moses to stone according to the letter of the law. How else would you convey "death for refusing the Most High" to an unbelieving generation, one exiled in Egypt for 400+ years, who had no familiarity with YHWH, and despite witnessing the red sea parting, they still doubted in YHWH's ability to care for them, complaining all the way through the desert? Physical/literal demonstration was the only way to drive it into their heads that "if you refuse YHWH, you die". They didn't believe the miracles, much less something written, spoken, or reasoned.
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Exodus 35:3 - Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
That's the point. He shouldn't have been lighting that kind of fire, period. No one was allowed—cold or not. Knowing this, why is he picking up sticks at all? The others were obeying just fine with no fire, why not him?
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For the sake of your example though, let's say YHWH never said anything about prohibiting fires on the Sabbath, and it was fine to build a fire if you were cold. He had the rest of the week to get his house in order, specifically the 6th day of the week was called "preparation day"; there was no excuse. What was he doing that entire day while the WHOLE community was out preparing for the Sabbath, cooking beforehand, doing double the work because they knew tomorrow is their "day off"? This man should have taken preventative measures beforehand so as to not run out of firewood on the Sabbath (like the virgins who ran out of oil in Matthew 25; they missed the bridegroom's arrival when they went to fetch more oil. Repeating theme: Prepare yourselves before the Sabbath. Prepare yourselves before the groom comes).
Let's take an emergency into account and give him the benefit of the doubt that he did prepare like everyone else; let's say some animal got into all the food they prepared on the 6th day and they didn't have wood because they used it all up the previous day preparing, but they really don't have anything to eat. First and foremost, there's nothing to "glean" from, they're in the desert. That option isn't there. So, they're faced with a choice: break the laws we just received or fast for the rest of the day until sundown? They chose to please the appetite of their flesh over the will of YHWH. If they had nothing to glean from, they should've held out for a few hours, not outright disobeyed. Of course, that's just a hypothetical scenario; YHWH knows what that man was actually doing; he weighed his motives/ intentions, and he decided it deserved death. Notice that Moses and Aaron hesitated; at first, they just put him "into custody", but then YHWH tells Moses the man must die. So why are you doubting that this was the right thing to do? Moses didn't even want to kill him. This isn't a misinterpretation of YHWH's will.
Let's take an emergency into account and give him the benefit of the doubt that he did prepare like everyone else; let's say some animal got into all the food they prepared on the 6th day and they didn't have wood because they used it all up the previous day preparing, but they really don't have anything to eat. First and foremost, there's nothing to "glean" from, they're in the desert. That option isn't there. So, they're faced with a choice: break the laws we just received or fast for the rest of the day until sundown? They chose to please the appetite of their flesh over the will of YHWH. If they had nothing to glean from, they should've held out for a few hours, not outright disobeyed. Of course, that's just a hypothetical scenario; YHWH knows what that man was actually doing; he weighed his motives/ intentions, and he decided it deserved death. Notice that Moses and Aaron hesitated; at first, they just put him "into custody", but then YHWH tells Moses the man must die. So why are you doubting that this was the right thing to do? Moses didn't even want to kill him. This isn't a misinterpretation of YHWH's will.
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After reading Hebrews 4, you don't see how he is the Sabbath? I suppose the problem here is how we approach the information: one continuous story, YHWH building on the information he has previously revealed VS. books that are completely irrelevant to each other (despite having one God inspiring them all?).
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He's a God of Justice. Why care about right-ruling in the courts? Why require us to be truthful witnesses? Why hold the fallen angels in a "prison" until judgment day (Jude 1:6)? Why have divisions in Sheol, the righteous waiting in Abraham's Bosom, the unrighteous waiting in the torturous side (Lk 16:22-26)? Why have a judgment day at all? Because he's just. That trait can't be deleted.
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Yes. The wicked choose to be punished. They "enjoy" their worldly life in their ignorance, they find all of that negativity/sinfulness "fun" and worth the pleasure despite physical or even spiritual repercussions; they don't have an eternal destiny on their minds because they don't believe his words/warnings.
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What you call "stretching" others call "connecting dots"; noticing parallels from the whole body of work, how Yeshua is illustrated in what was spoken, is not a far-fetched concept when we have verses telling us that's exactly what's going on: again, Col 2:17.
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
You are taking the "shadow of things" to come verse out of context.
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Let me stress once again the importance of Spirit and Truth. One without the other makes you one of two things: either a killer or a liar. This would be a person lacking in Spirit. For us under the new covenant, we miss the mark by sticking to just one (spirit or truth, instead of spirit and truth). In Moses' time, the people understood neither unless they were anointed with his spirit (David, Moses, Solomon, etc..., were all anointed; when the "judging" responsibilities became too much for Moses, and YHWH told him to divide the responsibility amongst elders of his choosing, the spirit came on them so they could do it right, Numbers 11:16-17, 25). For us, when perceiving through Yeshua, there is no veil. You see correctly. As I said, interpreting the law through Yeshua is the safest route and we can with the Holy Spirit in us. Plus, new covenant believers shouldn't be killing anyone, period, unless you want to uphold the self defense laws of the OT in defiance of Yeshua's example: let people strike you and take your life because his kingdom is one of non-violence; they can kill the body but not your soul/spirit. So, if you can't flee, if they captured you, don't strike back because you'll be resurrected in the end and you stayed loyal to his ways.
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How can you look at these verses and not see what I've been trying to explain this whole time? The veil that doesn't allow them to see/perceive is removed by Yeshua, look at his example. Moses didn't reveal the full significance of the the rituals and commandments; he didn't speak of what they would be fulfilling in the future (what a Sabbath represents, why the whole community was considered guilty when their high priest sins (Lev 4:3), who the sacrifices represented, what the tabernacle represented, et cetera).
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Right, and we have no excuse now if we have the Holy Spirit.
"For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us." — 1 Corinthians 2:11-12 (NIV)
I shouldn't have doubted the convictions I was getting; I didn't like the idea of being right ("that gay sex is wrong") so I jumped into the conversation to be proven wrong. I apologize if this has inconvenienced you, but I'm grateful to both the Holy Spirit and you for forcing me to consider these verses again.
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The prophetic meaning that I have in mind ("two similar things becoming one". [male + female], not identical [female + female / male + male], not different [male + beast / female + beast], but similar [male + female]), so no it doesn't ignore what I said previously about prophetic meanings; hence the reason why I mentioned Matt 22:30, at the resurrection no one will marry. Why? because that prophecy is fulfilled in that future moment when we've reunited with the groom. His church/"body of believers" is compared to a female, and he is compared to the groom who is male. Humans are made in his image so we are similar to him, but not identical, and we will reunite with him.
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Because it fails to convey the prophetic meaning I just mentioned.
Female + Female = identical
Male + Male = identical
Male + Beast = not similar enough
Female + Beast = not similar enough;
Male + Female = similar enough, yet not identical, they can unite.
So instead of taking something he created [marriage] and disambiguating it from the definitions he gave us [man uniting with wife], it's better to not touch it at all [not marry; stay celibate].
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How did you arrive at that conclusion considering the context of the conversation? I hear: "this is how my Father views marriage and separation; this message isn't meant for everybody because not everybody marries. Some people stay celibate/out of marriage for various reasons: some for the sake of the kingdom (to serve the kingdom more efficiently), some become celibate at the hands of other men (castrated), and others were born this way (at the hands of God, not the hands of men, their orientation prevents them from marrying, forming new families and/or the womb is closed). However, whoever is eligible to receive this message [those who can and do marry] should accept this: divorce is not his will".
A gay, castrated, or celibate person doesn't need to accept the message because they don't marry.
Matthew 19:11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.(Not everyone can be celibate) 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way (People born gay), and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others (People castrated)—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven(People who choose to be celibate). The one who can accept this should accept it.(If you can accept being celibate you should)”
Celibate is ideal but not for everyone. Those who choose to be celibate should. Not seeing how this denies "eunuchs" from being allowed to marry if they cannot be celibate.
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If they are suppose to be celibate, the "sacrifice" would be not to have a sexual relationship at all so that the Father's will (forming families his way, for whatever reason he wants them formed or not formed) can be done.
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He was not just talking about idolatry; Paul listed a bunch of other things that were punishable by death just two verses up (v.29-30): "slanderers" [Deu 19:18-19], "murder"[Lev 24:17], "disobeying parents" [Lev 20:9]; the pattern being, "anything punishable by death before" is not good and dandy now ("adultery" for example [Lev 20:10], man lying with man as he does with woman [Lev 20:13], both punishable by death before, but now punishment is delayed; he's giving people a chance to believe his words and repent, 2 Pt 3:9).
Romans 1:18-20 - God revealed himself and the truth. You can see the truth in the natural world.
Romans 1:21-23 - They assumed the natural world to be gods.
Romans 1:24-25 - They served the created images and gave into personal desires.
Romans 1:26-27 - The idolatry got so bad it lead them to committing all kinds of sexual sins.
Romans 1:28-32 - Their idolatry lead them to commit even more horrendous acts despite seeing the right way for themselves.
The primary sin addressed in Romans is idolatry and that it leads to other sins. First sexual sins like ritual sex, then to far worse sins. Idolatry is the root cause of this.
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Now that the Holy Spirit has finished slapping my face for not listening before (despite how clear he was being, lol) I think we can end here. In the end, I'm forced to accept Rev 22:11, a chapter I ended up revisiting as a direct result of this conversation. I doubt I was moved to speak just to benefit myself though. Maybe someone else will benefit out of what was said, on either part.
