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 Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:29 am
Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 emorhconom esor According to that tract I'm not saved because I've never personally brought anyone to Christ. It says that people aren't saved unless they bring other's to Christ personally and some people aren't called to do that. I find it very insulting. That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews I'd like to form a rebuttal, but I honestly cannot understand what you are saying. I've read it over and over again, and the sentence structure is so poor I can't figure out half of what your trying to tell me. Take English 101 again and get back to me.
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:41 am
Matt Pniewski Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 emorhconom esor According to that tract I'm not saved because I've never personally brought anyone to Christ. It says that people aren't saved unless they bring other's to Christ personally and some people aren't called to do that. I find it very insulting. That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews I'd like to form a rebuttal, but I honestly cannot understand what you are saying. I've read it over and over again, and the sentence structure is so poor I can't figure out half of what your trying to tell me. Take English 101 again and get back to me. What he is trying to say is that while that verse is commonly used to say that helping Christ's brothers and or sisters is what will get them into heaven, it is actually the Jews that the verse talks about. He is also saying that it is a prophecy of when the Tribulation comes. While I would argue that the verse refers to everybody in the world, that is what he is getting at. Also, I'd like to remind you that insulting people is against the rules of this guild. We are a Christian community, and as such, we will treat each other with respect. Please keep that in mind when posting in threads like these. Friendly debate is ok, but please be respectful.
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thrashmetaljunkie Captain
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:05 pm
thrashmetaljunkie Matt Pniewski Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews I'd like to form a rebuttal, but I honestly cannot understand what you are saying. I've read it over and over again, and the sentence structure is so poor I can't figure out half of what your trying to tell me. Take English 101 again and get back to me. What he is trying to say is that while that verse is commonly used to say that helping Christ's brothers and or sisters is what will get them into heaven, it is actually the Jews that the verse talks about. He is also saying that it is a prophecy of when the Tribulation comes. While I would argue that the verse refers to everybody in the world, that is what he is getting at. Also, I'd like to remind you that insulting people is against the rules of this guild. We are a Christian community, and as such, we will treat each other with respect. Please keep that in mind when posting in threads like these. Friendly debate is ok, but please be respectful. That's a very convenient explanation that is not biblical supported that frees him of any responsibility. There is no indication in the passage is prophecy, only parable, and even less to go on that it is limited in that fashion.
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:27 pm
Matt Pniewski thrashmetaljunkie Matt Pniewski Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews I'd like to form a rebuttal, but I honestly cannot understand what you are saying. I've read it over and over again, and the sentence structure is so poor I can't figure out half of what your trying to tell me. Take English 101 again and get back to me. What he is trying to say is that while that verse is commonly used to say that helping Christ's brothers and or sisters is what will get them into heaven, it is actually the Jews that the verse talks about. He is also saying that it is a prophecy of when the Tribulation comes. While I would argue that the verse refers to everybody in the world, that is what he is getting at. Also, I'd like to remind you that insulting people is against the rules of this guild. We are a Christian community, and as such, we will treat each other with respect. Please keep that in mind when posting in threads like these. Friendly debate is ok, but please be respectful. That's a very convenient explanation that is not biblical supported that frees him of any responsibility. There is no indication in the passage is prophecy, only parable, and even less to go on that it is limited in that fashion. Mathew 25:31 KJV 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Verse 31 shows that the nations will be judged when Christ shall come in his Glory or the 2nd coming of the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of the tribulation when Christ's followers will have to live Godly lives and walk in his way to be saved.
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:27 am
Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 emorhconom esor According to that tract I'm not saved because I've never personally brought anyone to Christ. It says that people aren't saved unless they bring other's to Christ personally and some people aren't called to do that. I find it very insulting. That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor. the question is who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews Wrong. We are ALL Christ's brothers, as we are children of God.
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:38 pm
Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 emorhconom esor According to that tract I'm not saved because I've never personally brought anyone to Christ. It says that people aren't saved unless they bring other's to Christ personally and some people aren't called to do that. I find it very insulting. That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor. the question is who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews Here in Matthew 25, it is talking about judgment day, which is yes, after the tribulation, but also still applies to people who have already died but were not changed. Those people being cast into hell are those who have died and those after the tribulation. It is not talking about just the people who were alive during the tribulation, it includes everyone else alike. The 'chosen people' are not just the Jews, for Paul came to preach salvation to the barbarians, Greeks, and Jews alike. Yes the Jews had the gospel preached to them first, (Mat 10), but in return they rejected it. This is one of the reasons Jesus said to the Pharisees asking for a sign, "No sign will be given but the sign of Jonah." (The sign of Jonah was that Jonah was sent to preach to the city of Nineveh to repentance. Even Jonah, who was a Jew, did not want to go there because he himself hated the Gentiles. Yet even so, probably one of the greatest revivals in history occurred. But even still, the zealous Jew, the Pharisee, who should have been one of the most righteous men, was the one that crucified the savior instead. Jesus is saying here that the Gentiles accepted Him but most of the Jews did not.) Acts 13:45-47 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:49 pm
Ransom3d Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 emorhconom esor According to that tract I'm not saved because I've never personally brought anyone to Christ. It says that people aren't saved unless they bring other's to Christ personally and some people aren't called to do that. I find it very insulting. That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor. the question is who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews Here in Matthew 25, it is talking about judgment day, which is yes, after the tribulation, but also still applies to people who have already died but were not changed. Those people being cast into hell are those who have died and those after the tribulation. It is not talking about just the people who were alive during the tribulation, it includes everyone else alike. The 'chosen people' are not just the Jews, for Paul came to preach salvation to the barbarians, Greeks, and Jews alike. Yes the Jews had the gospel preached to them first, (Mat 10), but in return they rejected it. This is one of the reasons Jesus said to the Pharisees asking for a sign, "No sign will be given but the sign of Jonah." (The sign of Jonah was that Jonah was sent to preach to the city of Nineveh to repentance. Even Jonah, who was a Jew, did not want to go there because he himself hated the Gentiles. Yet even so, probably one of the greatest revivals in history occurred. But even still, the zealous Jew, the Pharisee, who should have been one of the most righteous men, was the one that crucified the savior instead. Jesus is saying here that the Gentiles accepted Him but most of the Jews did not.) Acts 13:45-47 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’” Matthew 12:38-40 King James Version (KJV) 38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.The sign of Jonas was not that he was preaching to a place he hated but that Jonas spent three days in hell and the returned to the world. As Jesus was Crucified and went to hell to save the believers before Christ in Abraham's Bosom then returned from the dead Jonah 2:2 King James Version (KJV) 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. Jesus was saying that the only sign they would see is him being Crucified and rising on the third day.
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:09 am
Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 emorhconom esor According to that tract I'm not saved because I've never personally brought anyone to Christ. It says that people aren't saved unless they bring other's to Christ personally and some people aren't called to do that. I find it very insulting. That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. Matthew 25:31-46 King James Version (KJV) 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. If you would have gone back a few verses you would have seen that it was the Nations being divided and judged on how they Treated Christ's Brethren and not separate individuals and seeing how all Nations are facing judgement it is needless to say that these verses are for tribulation prophecies when Christ reigns for a thousand years on Earth. Revelation 20:5-6 King James Version (KJV) 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:39 pm
Epic Dutch Ransom3d Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor. the question is who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews Here in Matthew 25, it is talking about judgment day, which is yes, after the tribulation, but also still applies to people who have already died but were not changed. Those people being cast into hell are those who have died and those after the tribulation. It is not talking about just the people who were alive during the tribulation, it includes everyone else alike. The 'chosen people' are not just the Jews, for Paul came to preach salvation to the barbarians, Greeks, and Jews alike. Yes the Jews had the gospel preached to them first, (Mat 10), but in return they rejected it. This is one of the reasons Jesus said to the Pharisees asking for a sign, "No sign will be given but the sign of Jonah." (The sign of Jonah was that Jonah was sent to preach to the city of Nineveh to repentance. Even Jonah, who was a Jew, did not want to go there because he himself hated the Gentiles. Yet even so, probably one of the greatest revivals in history occurred. But even still, the zealous Jew, the Pharisee, who should have been one of the most righteous men, was the one that crucified the savior instead. Jesus is saying here that the Gentiles accepted Him but most of the Jews did not.) Acts 13:45-47 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
Jesus was saying that the only sign they would see is him being Crucified and rising on the third day.The Sign of Jonah 38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. That was not what Jesus was referring to, because if you look at verse 41 Jesus proceeds and goes on and talks about how Nineveh repented, and that they will judge this generation. He is in a way mocking the Pharisees that they are seeking for a sign but He remarks about the sign of Jonah. Jonah was tossed in the ocean so that the storm may be calmed ,(God's wrath), and Jonah was sent to preach Nineveh and they repented. To put it more simply, a Gentile city repented, but a high priest was not repentant. Of all things, that is quite ironic. (I have not really looked into Jesus spending 3 days in hell when He was crucified, I will have to take a look at that and study it. Why did Jesus said, "It is finished if He had more work to be done?" No part of the Bible that I have read mentioned Jesus even spending 3 days in Hell. It talked about Him being risen on the Third day though)
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:22 am
Matt Pniewski thrashmetaljunkie Matt Pniewski Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski Robotic Chewie2590 That is not what the tract is saying it is saying that you don't except Christ as your Lord and Savior and fully depend on what did to save you and not your own works to save you you will not be saved it is talking about salvation through faith not by works Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. I am not saying we should still sin what I am saying is our Salvation was already fully paid when Christ gave himself on the cross for us Romans 5:6-11 King James Version (KJV) 6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. The foolishness that we are saved by Faith, not works, or even the other way around, needs to end. To truly have faith in Christ, you must follow in his path. This doesn't mean simply preaching and Evangelizing, but by actively helping those in need. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25 35-46 We all know this, so therefore, why must we even bother with this foolish notion? It's spelled out right for you. Having faith is not about simply believing, but acting on those beliefs. Hence, in a way, we are saved by our works, which prove our devotion to God. though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews I'd like to form a rebuttal, but I honestly cannot understand what you are saying. I've read it over and over again, and the sentence structure is so poor I can't figure out half of what your trying to tell me. Take English 101 again and get back to me. What he is trying to say is that while that verse is commonly used to say that helping Christ's brothers and or sisters is what will get them into heaven, it is actually the Jews that the verse talks about. He is also saying that it is a prophecy of when the Tribulation comes. While I would argue that the verse refers to everybody in the world, that is what he is getting at. Also, I'd like to remind you that insulting people is against the rules of this guild. We are a Christian community, and as such, we will treat each other with respect. Please keep that in mind when posting in threads like these. Friendly debate is ok, but please be respectful. That's a very convenient explanation that is not biblical supported that frees him of any responsibility. There is no indication in the passage is prophecy, only parable, and even less to go on that it is limited in that fashion. Joel 3:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.Joel 3:11-21 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. 16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. 17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. 18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim. 19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. 20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. 21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion. Matthew 25 is meant to go with these verses showing the fate of the Nations at the end of the tribulation period
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:09 am
Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski thrashmetaljunkie Matt Pniewski Epic Dutch though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews I'd like to form a rebuttal, but I honestly cannot understand what you are saying. I've read it over and over again, and the sentence structure is so poor I can't figure out half of what your trying to tell me. Take English 101 again and get back to me. What he is trying to say is that while that verse is commonly used to say that helping Christ's brothers and or sisters is what will get them into heaven, it is actually the Jews that the verse talks about. He is also saying that it is a prophecy of when the Tribulation comes. While I would argue that the verse refers to everybody in the world, that is what he is getting at. Also, I'd like to remind you that insulting people is against the rules of this guild. We are a Christian community, and as such, we will treat each other with respect. Please keep that in mind when posting in threads like these. Friendly debate is ok, but please be respectful. That's a very convenient explanation that is not biblical supported that frees him of any responsibility. There is no indication in the passage is prophecy, only parable, and even less to go on that it is limited in that fashion. Joel 3:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.Joel 3:11-21 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. 16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. 17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. 18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim. 19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. 20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. 21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion. Matthew 25 is meant to go with these verses showing the fate of the Nations at the end of the tribulation period I am not sure why you are debating about other parts of scripture that has no relevance to this topic. However, from what you have typed up here, there are some errors. If God were to judge an entire nation on where to go,(Heaven or Hell), then that means that that nation must be completely wicked or completely righteous. If you put two and two together, then what you have said is wrong, because God does not judge an entire nation's eternal destination, if He were to do so, then He would not be just.
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:39 pm
Ransom3d Epic Dutch Matt Pniewski thrashmetaljunkie Matt Pniewski Epic Dutch though a commonly used verse to signify helping the poor who are Christ's Brothers? the Answer the Jewish people. The verse is used to prophecy the future after the great Tribulation when the Beast and false prophet are thrown in hell and when Christ judges the Nations on how they treated his Chosen people the Jews I'd like to form a rebuttal, but I honestly cannot understand what you are saying. I've read it over and over again, and the sentence structure is so poor I can't figure out half of what your trying to tell me. Take English 101 again and get back to me. What he is trying to say is that while that verse is commonly used to say that helping Christ's brothers and or sisters is what will get them into heaven, it is actually the Jews that the verse talks about. He is also saying that it is a prophecy of when the Tribulation comes. While I would argue that the verse refers to everybody in the world, that is what he is getting at. Also, I'd like to remind you that insulting people is against the rules of this guild. We are a Christian community, and as such, we will treat each other with respect. Please keep that in mind when posting in threads like these. Friendly debate is ok, but please be respectful. That's a very convenient explanation that is not biblical supported that frees him of any responsibility. There is no indication in the passage is prophecy, only parable, and even less to go on that it is limited in that fashion. Joel 3:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.Joel 3:11-21 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. 16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. 17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. 18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim. 19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. 20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. 21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion. Matthew 25 is meant to go with these verses showing the fate of the Nations at the end of the tribulation period I am not sure why you are debating about other parts of scripture that has no relevance to this topic. However, from what you have typed up here, there are some errors. If God were to judge an entire nation on where to go,(Heaven or Hell), then that means that that nation must be completely wicked or completely righteous. If you put two and two together, then what you have said is wrong, because God does not judge an entire nation's eternal destination, if He were to do so, then He would not be just. Yes but aren't we as a people judged by our Leaders policies and who we follow as our leader?
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:36 am
Heard a story once, lovers of the flesh instead of the word of God.
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