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 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:46 pm
i agree that prayer is communication.
you express yourself, and then you listen quietly.
you do not just drop a demand and then hang up and wait to get something.
suppose the deity is like a kind parent, just suppose; how would she feel if all she heard from the kids was their demands for stuff?
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:55 pm
Aakosir rmcdra Aakosir @ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying. I understand that but there at least 5, if not more, types of prayers recognized in Christian tradition. What you have effectively described is prayers of petition. While the most common, it is considered the lowest form of prayer and requires an individual to do something on their side of the field to actually bring about this petition. Unfortunately, many regard this as "wish vending" and are for some reason surprised that their prayers are not answered yet did nothing on their part to get the ball rolling. If your Mom's prayers aren't being answered you might want to ask here what she is doing to help her God answer prayers since the Christian God pretty much expects his followers to help those that pray to him. Now this doesn't mean do x, get y, but more of like if she is praying for x to happen what is she doing to make x happen on her end, is she lowering her pride and asking others to help her with prayers for x, and is she helping others get their prayers answered. I think she just isn't informed. ..... Try telling her that you've heard that "God helps those who helps themselves" ..... And then, if she wonders what you mean, mention some of what youve read here.
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:23 pm
Tiina Brown I think she just isn't informed. ..... Try telling her that you've heard that "God helps those who helps themselves" ..... And then, if she wonders what you mean, mention some of what youve read here. I'd personally say. "God is within you and others, God is helping you, what are you doing to help God?" The Ben Franklin quote there neglects a big part of Christian tradition in that God is primarily with those who are suffering. Matthew 25 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:36 pm
Tiina Brown Aakosir rmcdra Aakosir @ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying. I understand that but there at least 5, if not more, types of prayers recognized in Christian tradition. What you have effectively described is prayers of petition. While the most common, it is considered the lowest form of prayer and requires an individual to do something on their side of the field to actually bring about this petition. Unfortunately, many regard this as "wish vending" and are for some reason surprised that their prayers are not answered yet did nothing on their part to get the ball rolling. If your Mom's prayers aren't being answered you might want to ask here what she is doing to help her God answer prayers since the Christian God pretty much expects his followers to help those that pray to him. Now this doesn't mean do x, get y, but more of like if she is praying for x to happen what is she doing to make x happen on her end, is she lowering her pride and asking others to help her with prayers for x, and is she helping others get their prayers answered. I think she just isn't informed. ..... Try telling her that you've heard that "God helps those who helps themselves" ..... And then, if she wonders what you mean, mention some of what youve read here.
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:46 pm
Aakosir Tiina Brown Aakosir rmcdra Aakosir @ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying. I understand that but there at least 5, if not more, types of prayers recognized in Christian tradition. What you have effectively described is prayers of petition. While the most common, it is considered the lowest form of prayer and requires an individual to do something on their side of the field to actually bring about this petition. Unfortunately, many regard this as "wish vending" and are for some reason surprised that their prayers are not answered yet did nothing on their part to get the ball rolling. If your Mom's prayers aren't being answered you might want to ask here what she is doing to help her God answer prayers since the Christian God pretty much expects his followers to help those that pray to him. Now this doesn't mean do x, get y, but more of like if she is praying for x to happen what is she doing to make x happen on her end, is she lowering her pride and asking others to help her with prayers for x, and is she helping others get their prayers answered. I think she just isn't informed. ..... Try telling her that you've heard that "God helps those who helps themselves" ..... And then, if she wonders what you mean, mention some of what youve read here. That might be helped by you mentioning that you heard it from someone else ....
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:23 pm
❝ I'm not someone who prays, but I did go to a christian elementary from K-6 in which we did pray before lunch/events/etc and we went to church as a school roughly every month.
I've never understood prayer to be something that was meant to change things. I've always understood it as communication. A sort of... internal diary with whichever deity you're praying to. Something to help you connect and grow in your faith/whatever since the god was already all-knowing. Prayer would be a tool for you to grow/understand your deity, not for your deity to understand you/what you need.
There have been a few studies to do with whether prayer helps patients in hospitals such as this one. It pretty much sums up to there are actually negative effects, but researchers don't necessarily attribute it to the prayer itself but anxiety on part of the patients because those that didn't know they were being prayed for and those that weren't healed about the same. Those that knew they were being prayed for did significantly worse. A sort of "if I need prayer then I'm doing badly" psychology effect? There also considering it could just be chance.
Quote: Researchers said the study was never intended to prove or disprove the existence of God or to settle theological questions. But they had expected that knowing someone was praying for the patients might help those patients relax and bring about a state of well-being, which can reduce strain on the heart.
Make of it what you will. -shrug- ❞
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:11 pm
Morbid Daydream Those that knew they were being prayed for did significantly worse. A sort of "if I need prayer then I'm doing badly" psychology effect? There also considering it could just be chance.
Quote: Researchers said the study was never intended to prove or disprove the existence of God or to settle theological questions. But they had expected that knowing someone was praying for the patients might help those patients relax and bring about a state of well-being, which can reduce strain on the heart.
Make of it what you will. -shrug- ❞
I sadly think it was more like: "I'm being prayed for, i don't have to make as much effort" ........
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:57 pm
Tiina Brown I sadly think it was more like: "I'm being prayed for, i don't have to make as much effort" ........ ❝ Like... putting physical effort into their recovery?
The effort put into recovery by the patents/their caregivers would have to be similar or near identical for the study to be scientific.
The hypothesis going in was that knowing you're being prayed for would lead to positive thoughts and thus quicker recovery (optimism/a positive mindset has been shown to help patients recover better/quicker). It seems to have caused anxiety though. Anxiety = bad for the heart (the study was done on coronary-bypass patients). But... it could just be chance as well. There are other studies that have had very similar results though.
I just don't see how positive thoughts about being able to relax/not make much of an effort would lead to negative results when such optimism has been shown to have a positive, not negative, effect on recovery - time and time again. ❞
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:34 pm
Prayer works only if you make it so.
To me,prayer is a way for people who lack will or ambition to just ask their overlord to get them through something. There was this boy in school,never studied for the Finals and instead prayed while I worked my a** off. When he found out he flunked the math Final he asked the sky 'why?' I heard him and said 'prayer doesn't work,you have to do it yourself.' We got into a fight which resulted in me banging his head against the railing and him smashing a rock on my leg.
Not one of my finer moments,but the point is to me Prayer does nothing,and that YOU have to do something.
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:20 pm
Even as a child I had issue thinking of prayer as simply making demands to some greater Being. Partly because so rarely did I have anything I wanted to ask for, and because frequently upon reflection I decided that what I might want was so small in the grand scheme of things that why should I force god to take his time to listen to me and my small complaints when there we so many bigger issues in the world for him to be dealing with.
I was quite good however at having long talks with my invisible friend in the sky, telling him about my day, what was good, what was bad, much as I'd chatter away at my mother when coming home.
I think of prayers of petition with out action as useless.
A story I heard a long-time ago illustrates this: Every day a man prayed to God "let me win the lottery". It would let him take care of his family. Every day for 20 years he prayed "let me win the lottery." When he died and stood before God in Heaven he asked him "God I only asked for one thing, why did you never let me win the lottery" and God replied "Well, did you ever think of buying a ticket?"
I may pray to find work, but I still need to put for the leg work to send out applications, and to show up to the interviews. Even if the opportunity is set in my path I still need to be the one to take it.
I rarely make prayers for specific material things. I may pray for the strength to get me through a tough situation, to the wisdom to learn a lesson in a struggle, to continue to grow and to learn in my spiritual walk. I most frequently pray thoughts of recognition and thanks.
I find prayer useful as a meditation, a time to take a break from the craziness of the world around me and reset my mind and my focus.
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:36 am
prayer, at best, is useful for relaxation and nothing more.
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:34 am
I pray occasionally, just in case God exists. I do not, however, think it's a very good idea to believe all that much in the power of prayer, because in the event that God does not exist, you'll have been talking to nothing, your prayers will go unanswered, and if you have substituted work for prayer, then you will come away with less because of it. It is also reasonable to consider that, if a God does exist, it may find that you are asking for too much or too little and refuse your request.
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:37 pm
As my religion is a huge part of my life, I constantly pray to all my deities... I pray to Father for love, strength, and individuality, I pray to nature for safety, and for good weather, and thank nature for providing me with food to eat and water to drink, I pray to the sky for keeping such a mystery, and thank them all for being there for me, when I just want to talk, or if I need help with something... Although, I also firmly believe that prayer doesn't work unless actions accompany it.
Although, prayer is like magick... It only works if you believe it does. We are all spiritual entities.
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