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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:13 pm
Keep in mind I am not Terran. And your Zerg opponent was horrible.
Hotkeys:
You need to hotkey your production buildings for fast ...production. That way you don't have to scroll all over your base to find the structure you want to build from. You also need to learn the hotkeys for the things you want to make. There was a noticeable delay between when you selected your Barracks and started building that first Marine. It may not seem like much at the time but little slips like that compound over a long game.
Idle Workers/Queuing Actions:
This seems like a problem for you and something you should focus on. Almost every time you sent an SCV out to build something you let it sit there for long periods of time or just left it there entirely. You want to maximize your production and mining efficiency. When you send an SCV out to build something you need to shift+click a mineral patch after you place your structure so that it will go back to mining when it is done. If you want it to building something after it finishes building then do the same thing except place another building instead of clicking that mineral patch. Having an SCV travel is preferable to just leaving it out there.
Check Building Placements:
You may not have noticed but when you moved that first Barracks to build that Reactor you created a hole in your wall that units could travel through. To avoid this, turn on the option to Display Build Grid in the Options>Gameplay menu.
Learn The Firepower Of Your Units:
Remember how I said your opponent was horrible? You could have killed him at the 7:40 mark. He had nothing. Hadn't even built his first set of Zerglings yet. Higher level players wont mess up this bad, and this isn't a specific timing you can exploit, but you should know what your units can and cannot handle. You had enough Marines/Marauders to put the hurt on most Zergs and if you rally your Barracks to your opponent's base and continue to produce units via hotkeys you can end games pretty quickly.
Scout More Efficiently:
You stockpiled a lot of energy on your Command Centers. You want to be making as much use of it as you can. Unless a specific strategy calls for it or your opponent damaged your SCV count you would be better off spending that energy on Scans instead of MULEs (see disclaimer at the top). Case in point, at the 15:00 mark when you sent that Marine out to scout the front. If you had been playing a good Zerg then he would have more than likely been on his fourth base. In an ideal setting you should be sending fast units like Hellions around the map to look for them, in which case you would be spending that energy on MULEs.
Stimming:
Again I reference that Marine you sent out to scout at the 15:00 mark. Don't stim just to stim. The couple of seconds you save running across the map wont tell you anything different than if you had arrive just a wee bit later. Not to mention the health you lost using those stims could mean the difference between seeing only the front of his base and seeing something critical.
The Spacebar Is Your Friend:
Once again I reference that scouting Marine. You were busy looking up at your base when he was killed and didn't click the minimap until long after you wouldn't have been able to see what killed him. Get into the habit of hitting the spacebar whenever you hear an alert that requires your immediate attention, such as your units getting killed. This will center the view on whatever caused the alert and you would have seen that your Marine was killed by Mutalisks. Information like that can mean the difference between another loss and being promoted.
Broodlings:
Broodlings are the bane of, well, everything land ridden. Do not ignore these little bastards. If you've got the firepower to kill every single one before they reach your forces, fine. But if you don't then you should be running away or stutter stepping whenever a Zerg building pops. Don't just walk your units into them to kill the next building because they will eat you alive.
Message (on Gaia) me if you want to play and I'll try to help you patch up your play.
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:47 am
Two quick additions to your post immy.
The general consensus is to try and keep a scan available for any surprise cloak, but you want to drop as many mules as you can. 90% of the time, Terran WILL fall behind in worker count. It's just how it works. Protoss can chrono boost probes, and zerg uses the larvae mechanic and can just "drone up". Besides, if you can mine minerals faster than your opponent, you can spend more money faster, therefore giving yourself an advantage (because you know, you have more money to spend than you opponent, and can make more things).
With this advice though, you should still scan when you need to. If you cannot get a scv/marine/something else in to scout your opponent and see their build order/compositions, a scan may be required if you do not have enough information to figure out what they have/are doing.
The second advice I have to add.
Don't rely on spacebar to jump to "recent events". The fact is, in higher leagues there can be a lot of things going on at one time, and the spacebar might take you elsewhere. If I'm using a unit to scout/run ahead of my army to scout, I always have those on a hotkey so I can instantly go to them when I see something on the minimap/hear something. If I don't use a hotkey, I'm usually pretty fast myself at clicking the minimap where it is (just a use of effective apm, because I'm pretty OCD sometimes about my hotkeys and only use certain hotkeys for certain things as the game progresses.)
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:44 am
thanks again guys smile i know this was my first game back so yea, i had already stopped the idle workers thing before you posted that razz
but other than that yea thankss, i know another one of my main problems is transitioning into another strategy, that right there is what kills me
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:12 pm
well i did a tournie and lost the first match, and i'd like to know where i went wrong, personally i think my unit placement was a bit off and thats why i lost, the collossi owned my bio's because of my poor unit placement http://drop.sc/95636i did the tournie at an awesome website called z33k.com they do like tournies EVERYDAY for any league i play in the tournies bronze thru gold
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:58 am
coldhearted_is_me well i did a tournie and lost the first match, and i'd like to know where i went wrong, personally i think my unit placement was a bit off and thats why i lost, the collossi owned my bio's because of my poor unit placement http://drop.sc/95636i did the tournie at an awesome website called z33k.com they do like tournies EVERYDAY for any league i play in the tournies bronze thru gold Sorry if my suggestions are blunt, but I'm kinda tired =/ Colossus? Wha? This is ZvT? First off, the "normal" in higher up is to make your worker first, then instantly send the 6 workers out. You also didn't split, but that's just nit picking a bit, as it is not as big a deal as other things. You should also put your rally towards the middle of the mineral patches unless you're going to babysit every one that comes out, so they have the same amount of distance to run around to find a mineral patch. Unless it was part of the build, you missed a worker, you didn't make your 11th worker after dropping the supply depot. You also stopped making workers for a while at 11/12. It was kinda like you stopped to make an orbital, but didn't make the orbital. (Unless the zerg is doing some sort of early all in, you pretty much want to keep making workers since the zerg will inherently have more workers than you.) You then made an scv instead of the orbital it seemed like you stopped production for, and then after the scv kept the cc idle some more and didn't make workers/make an orbital. He had 17 workers to your 13, and you didn't have an orbital yet while he took a fast 2nd. As the game kept going, you still didn't make any more workers. Keep making workers! There is no reason to stop making workers at all, unless you are going to all in, or your opponent is going to all in and you need to all in to respond. That is pretty much the only time you should stop unless the build specifically needs you to cut workers/late game when you already have tons of workers. You should get in the habit of two things, 1. If you hear "SCV ready", switch to your ccs and make more workers. 2. Just check your cc constantly. If you're not doing anything, check it, even when you're doing things, check it. You just need to get in the habit of constantly making workers. Zerg was at about 30 while you were at about 16. You also took double gas, but you never spent any of it. You made the reactors, but that really doesn't warrant two gasses. I figured you were going to 1/1/1, or do some tech play, but you didn't spend any of the gas you were mining. If you don't need the gas anymore, pull workers off gas! You can always use more minerals if you don't need the gas. Your hellion harass was pretty inefficient. Once I saw the roaches (roaches are slow), I would have went to the main. But he also had a lot of lings. At 9 minutes, the zerg is going for his third, has ~40 workers, and you only had 20 workers and still on one base. You also had a bunch of minerals and gas banked up. You should put your production facilities on hotkeys so you can make units without having to look at your base. That is a bonus terran has. Protoss has to look somewhere to make gateway units. You pretty much needed more production facilities, and your hellion harass seemed to just do it, to just do it. When you harass like that, you need a plan. You harassed with hellions because... It forces the zerg to stay in his base or make static d while you do "x" (expand/tech/etc). At ~10 minutes he has around 50-60 drones, while you only had ~20. Just need to keep making workers! You also transferred workers when there really was no reason to. The main reason to transfer workers is to make sure you are not oversaturated in one base. If you are not oversaturated, you can just rally your cc to the expansion and let those walk as they are made. You didn't have rally points for all your production facilities, and you were not using them all the time (Hotkeys!) You had workers sitting around after making buildings sometimes, unless you're going to use the worker again afterwards for something you can't queue up, tell them to go back to mining after telling them to make something. (Shift right click mineral patches after telling them to place a building) You needed to scout, you pretty much had no idea what he was doing, or what he had. Using a scan here and there to scout for tech/expansions isn't the worst thing to do if you can't get in the base. I'm actually jealous, because if I can't get a scout in an enemy base, there isn't much I can do sometimes. ~13 minutes. He has ~70 workers while you have ~25 You also didn't have anything in the second bunker you re-made. So pretty much, hotkeys on production facilities, CONSTANTLY make workers (Unless you have a really good reason not to), and scouting.
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:16 am
oh woops guess i postedf the wrong one :S
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:26 am
Onos coldhearted_is_me well i did a tournie and lost the first match, and i'd like to know where i went wrong, personally i think my unit placement was a bit off and thats why i lost, the collossi owned my bio's because of my poor unit placement http://drop.sc/95636i did the tournie at an awesome website called z33k.com they do like tournies EVERYDAY for any league i play in the tournies bronze thru gold Sorry if my suggestions are blunt, but I'm kinda tired =/ Colossus? Wha? This is ZvT? First off, the "normal" in higher up is to make your worker first, then instantly send the 6 workers out. You also didn't split, but that's just nit picking a bit, as it is not as big a deal as other things. You should also put your rally towards the middle of the mineral patches unless you're going to babysit every one that comes out, so they have the same amount of distance to run around to find a mineral patch. Unless it was part of the build, you missed a worker, you didn't make your 11th worker after dropping the supply depot. You also stopped making workers for a while at 11/12. It was kinda like you stopped to make an orbital, but didn't make the orbital. (Unless the zerg is doing some sort of early all in, you pretty much want to keep making workers since the zerg will inherently have more workers than you.) You then made an scv instead of the orbital it seemed like you stopped production for, and then after the scv kept the cc idle some more and didn't make workers/make an orbital. He had 17 workers to your 13, and you didn't have an orbital yet while he took a fast 2nd. As the game kept going, you still didn't make any more workers. Keep making workers! There is no reason to stop making workers at all, unless you are going to all in, or your opponent is going to all in and you need to all in to respond. That is pretty much the only time you should stop unless the build specifically needs you to cut workers/late game when you already have tons of workers. You should get in the habit of two things, 1. If you hear "SCV ready", switch to your ccs and make more workers. 2. Just check your cc constantly. If you're not doing anything, check it, even when you're doing things, check it. You just need to get in the habit of constantly making workers. Zerg was at about 30 while you were at about 16. You also took double gas, but you never spent any of it. You made the reactors, but that really doesn't warrant two gasses. I figured you were going to 1/1/1, or do some tech play, but you didn't spend any of the gas you were mining. If you don't need the gas anymore, pull workers off gas! You can always use more minerals if you don't need the gas. Your hellion harass was pretty inefficient. Once I saw the roaches (roaches are slow), I would have went to the main. But he also had a lot of lings. At 9 minutes, the zerg is going for his third, has ~40 workers, and you only had 20 workers and still on one base. You also had a bunch of minerals and gas banked up. You should put your production facilities on hotkeys so you can make units without having to look at your base. That is a bonus terran has. Protoss has to look somewhere to make gateway units. You pretty much needed more production facilities, and your hellion harass seemed to just do it, to just do it. When you harass like that, you need a plan. You harassed with hellions because... It forces the zerg to stay in his base or make static d while you do "x" (expand/tech/etc). At ~10 minutes he has around 50-60 drones, while you only had ~20. Just need to keep making workers! You also transferred workers when there really was no reason to. The main reason to transfer workers is to make sure you are not oversaturated in one base. If you are not oversaturated, you can just rally your cc to the expansion and let those walk as they are made. You didn't have rally points for all your production facilities, and you were not using them all the time (Hotkeys!) You had workers sitting around after making buildings sometimes, unless you're going to use the worker again afterwards for something you can't queue up, tell them to go back to mining after telling them to make something. (Shift right click mineral patches after telling them to place a building) You needed to scout, you pretty much had no idea what he was doing, or what he had. Using a scan here and there to scout for tech/expansions isn't the worst thing to do if you can't get in the base. I'm actually jealous, because if I can't get a scout in an enemy base, there isn't much I can do sometimes. ~13 minutes. He has ~70 workers while you have ~25 You also didn't have anything in the second bunker you re-made. So pretty much, hotkeys on production facilities, CONSTANTLY make workers (Unless you have a really good reason not to), and scouting. thanks i'll try to work on this that was a tournie game but i didnt mean to post that one (oh well) heres the one i meant to post if anyone feels like reviewing it http://drop.sc/95739
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:53 am
coldhearted_is_me Onos coldhearted_is_me well i did a tournie and lost the first match, and i'd like to know where i went wrong, personally i think my unit placement was a bit off and thats why i lost, the collossi owned my bio's because of my poor unit placement http://drop.sc/95636i did the tournie at an awesome website called z33k.com they do like tournies EVERYDAY for any league i play in the tournies bronze thru gold Sorry if my suggestions are blunt, but I'm kinda tired =/ Colossus? Wha? This is ZvT? First off, the "normal" in higher up is to make your worker first, then instantly send the 6 workers out. You also didn't split, but that's just nit picking a bit, as it is not as big a deal as other things. You should also put your rally towards the middle of the mineral patches unless you're going to babysit every one that comes out, so they have the same amount of distance to run around to find a mineral patch. Unless it was part of the build, you missed a worker, you didn't make your 11th worker after dropping the supply depot. You also stopped making workers for a while at 11/12. It was kinda like you stopped to make an orbital, but didn't make the orbital. (Unless the zerg is doing some sort of early all in, you pretty much want to keep making workers since the zerg will inherently have more workers than you.) You then made an scv instead of the orbital it seemed like you stopped production for, and then after the scv kept the cc idle some more and didn't make workers/make an orbital. He had 17 workers to your 13, and you didn't have an orbital yet while he took a fast 2nd. As the game kept going, you still didn't make any more workers. Keep making workers! There is no reason to stop making workers at all, unless you are going to all in, or your opponent is going to all in and you need to all in to respond. That is pretty much the only time you should stop unless the build specifically needs you to cut workers/late game when you already have tons of workers. You should get in the habit of two things, 1. If you hear "SCV ready", switch to your ccs and make more workers. 2. Just check your cc constantly. If you're not doing anything, check it, even when you're doing things, check it. You just need to get in the habit of constantly making workers. Zerg was at about 30 while you were at about 16. You also took double gas, but you never spent any of it. You made the reactors, but that really doesn't warrant two gasses. I figured you were going to 1/1/1, or do some tech play, but you didn't spend any of the gas you were mining. If you don't need the gas anymore, pull workers off gas! You can always use more minerals if you don't need the gas. Your hellion harass was pretty inefficient. Once I saw the roaches (roaches are slow), I would have went to the main. But he also had a lot of lings. At 9 minutes, the zerg is going for his third, has ~40 workers, and you only had 20 workers and still on one base. You also had a bunch of minerals and gas banked up. You should put your production facilities on hotkeys so you can make units without having to look at your base. That is a bonus terran has. Protoss has to look somewhere to make gateway units. You pretty much needed more production facilities, and your hellion harass seemed to just do it, to just do it. When you harass like that, you need a plan. You harassed with hellions because... It forces the zerg to stay in his base or make static d while you do "x" (expand/tech/etc). At ~10 minutes he has around 50-60 drones, while you only had ~20. Just need to keep making workers! You also transferred workers when there really was no reason to. The main reason to transfer workers is to make sure you are not oversaturated in one base. If you are not oversaturated, you can just rally your cc to the expansion and let those walk as they are made. You didn't have rally points for all your production facilities, and you were not using them all the time (Hotkeys!) You had workers sitting around after making buildings sometimes, unless you're going to use the worker again afterwards for something you can't queue up, tell them to go back to mining after telling them to make something. (Shift right click mineral patches after telling them to place a building) You needed to scout, you pretty much had no idea what he was doing, or what he had. Using a scan here and there to scout for tech/expansions isn't the worst thing to do if you can't get in the base. I'm actually jealous, because if I can't get a scout in an enemy base, there isn't much I can do sometimes. ~13 minutes. He has ~70 workers while you have ~25 You also didn't have anything in the second bunker you re-made. So pretty much, hotkeys on production facilities, CONSTANTLY make workers (Unless you have a really good reason not to), and scouting. thanks i'll try to work on this that was a tournie game but i didnt mean to post that one (oh well) heres the one i meant to post if anyone feels like reviewing it http://drop.sc/95739 Yeah, the main issue it seems is just to keep making workers. Once you keep making workers you can keep making units, once you can keep making units you can learn how to use scouting information better, so on and so forth. Having workers is just the foundation of playing the game, so if you don't really make workers constantly, the rest doesn't really come together that well. Sorry if I suggestions seemed a little angry/rude. I'm not really a good teacher, and I state things pretty bluntly >_<. I don't really intend to sound rude or anything like that if I do =/ Anyways, I'm about to watch this one. You stopped at 10 workers again, and didn't make an 11th one again. Is this part of your opener you like to do, or do I just not know how Terran openers work? o.O (Because I really don't, as I play toss, but I figured you would make your 11th worker while depot is being made) I'll just say it once here, you stopped making workers again without making an orbital. There is no reason to stop making workers unless the build requires it, or the enemy stopped making workers for an all-in, and the only way you can defend is with an all-in yourself. at 5 mins you still didn't have an orbital, and you stopped making workers from time to time. Generally, if you need to make a production building, you just wait till you can afford it while constantly making workers (Unless it requires it, like the 4gate). You generally want your orbital as fast as you can get it. Mules are GOOOOOOOOD. You pretty much need them to keep up with the income of other races. Zerg can just mass drones, and protoss can chronoboost probes. You have to use mules to keep up with income when (and they will unless they are bad) they pull ahead in workers and you can't do super charge your workers like they can. When you saw him grab a fast nexus, two things should probably be going in your head. 1. I need to expand really quickly 2. I need to punish him really quickly Without a cyber core, a toss pretty much sucks against terran. Zealots can be infi-kited with just marines, or marines/rauders. Your push was decently effective, but without stim or slow, it isn't that great. Stim DESTROYS toss early game. Like no joke. Without some form of good AOE, forcefields, or just simple outnumbering, the toss just cannot deal with stim that well. The Marauder slow also makes it really hard for them to engage, because they are going to pretty much commit some units if they need to pull away from the engagement. WHen you pushed up, I probably would of rather went for the nexus, but going up the ramp without being 99% sure you're going to harm him in this situation isn't that great. It would have been ok if you expanded off of it, but you went pretty much all-in. He had 30 workers even after you killed some, with two bases (He can now chrono probes twice as fast as before), while you were still on 1 base with only 17 workers. (constant workers!) You were also supply blocked a few times for a while. Toss wasn't that great, but he had a lot of money banked up from constantly making workers. If he had more production buildings, he could have ended it a while back, but he was banking 2k+ for a while He had an observer over your army a good amount of the game. If you can, try and look for the little blips they make. They distort the ground/whatever a bit from being cloaked. If you can see it, scanning to kill it will greatly reduce how comfortable the toss feels. Some missile turrets here and there are not a bad idea either. You'd be surprised how many people end up losing observers to missile turrets since they had them on a rally or just told them to move and forgot about them. The turrets also deny vision from the toss since he can't get the obs in. If you're going to sit your army around and not do much with it, you should setup the tanks/try to split up your army so you have an advantage if they attack. Minor things like that can make or break an attack/defense. So, it's all pretty much just minor things that add up to be large ones in the end. Constantly making workers Constantly making supply depots. That's pretty much what really caused you to lose, as you couldn't keep up in the income. Whenever you start constantly making workers, you'll see you have a lot of money. When you do that, you'll learn how much production capacity you can support off of each base. Once you get those down, try doing drops or harassing them. Terran can't keep up in the worker count, so you need to try and damage their economy whenever you can. Another way to look at the game is the economy, tech, and army. Here is a link that explains it well. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=300184
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:56 pm
the reason i dont make an 11th scv is because it would delay my barracks, and i dont mind crude, i like it more when people are straight forward and dont hold a thing back, thanks i'll make sure to read up on that link and try my very best to improve more, i really appreciate your reviews smile
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:02 pm
coldhearted_is_me the reason i dont make an 11th scv is because it would delay my barracks, and i dont mind crude, i like it more when people are straight forward and dont hold a thing back, thanks i'll make sure to read up on that link and try my very best to improve more, i really appreciate your reviews smile Okie, that makes sense. Is it beneficial at all though? That's what I'm wondering. Usually when you drop the rax, you have 40 mins banked too, so I'm thinking building the scv would only put you behind a second or so, but you get the extra scv. There is an opener where you hold probes at 12 for toss to get a 12 gateway, but I prefer a 13 gateway, as it gives me the extra probe, but only puts the gate behind a few seconds. SC2 is a game of inches, and every little bit can count, and they both have their uses. IE, if I 13 gateway, I can save a chronoboost for warp tech to get a slightly faster 4gate. If I 12 gate though, I can have the gateway out faster to have a faster zealot and/or faster stalker. They both have their purpose. I'm just curious if the scv hold at 10 is really worth it, since it's a bit early. I'd just have to look up terran openers to find out, as I only really know toss and some zerg ones >_<
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:16 pm
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Reply
