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Trying to understand the potential of the human mind, and the potency of the human spirit. 

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Free Will

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Do you have free will?
  Yes.
  No.
  I'm not sure.
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Obscurus

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:06 pm


Note: I'm going to be posting this in a number of places.

Do you have free will? Most of us will say that we do but the evidence is at odds with that assertion. It should come as no surprise to anyone that all of our bodily functions and movements are controlled by the brain. Specifically, the electrical impulses within the brain. How then, can our consciousness induce electrical impulses in our brains that cause our actions and thoughts? There is no part of the brain that is the seat of our free will or consciousness.

One might argue that while electrical impulses cause the actions, our urges are what give rise to the actions. As it turns out, through placing electrodes on the brain, these "urges" can be induced as well as the actions that would flow from said urges. Not only this, but we can be tricked into believing we intentionally performed actions that we, in fact, did not. This works in reverse, we being fooled into believing that we are merely receiving input when in fact that "input" is arising from within us. Free will really is a tricky thing to wrap your mind around. It seems that our conscious intentions are really just the by-product of something that is already going on inside of our brains, beyond our control.

To go a little deeper into this, let's consider what we're made of and where that all began. Within a few moments of the universe beginning, everything that was, is, or ever will be was set in motion. All the stuff that makes up you or me or the planets or the stars can all be traced back to that moment. Now, stuff interacted with other stuff, hence changing the properties of all the stuff. Is it conceivable, in a Newtonian sense, that everything that goes on in our heads, the motions of molecules, electrons, etc. can all be traced back through a long, long series of interactions to that initial moment of creation? Running with this, everything that we do, everything that we are, was determined at the moment of creation. Does this sound like free will?

What are your thoughts?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:13 pm


I'd first like to start with a Buddhist idea I heard a while ago and has stuck with me.

First of all, we make choices based on our memories, personality, desires, and the information we have. Therefore having different information inside us would make us make different decisions. But is it really as mechanistic as it sounds?

If each decision was made without taking into account who we are, then we would have to rely upon chance, and spin a roulette wheel for every decision possible. That would be madness.

Now, to the Buddhist part. We are slave to our desires in Buddhist thought/cosmology, and they drive us, a natural by-product/counterpart to our karma. But as we progress towards enlightenment, we make choices less on our desires and more on our true nature, whatever that may be. The culmination of the idea is that when you become enlightened, you no longer have any desires, nor do you move in karma, good or bad, but rather your decisions unfold naturally out of your true will.



And if that was obtuse and confusing, let me end on a practical note.

Regardless of the reality, it only makes sense to make choices as if we had free will, and were in control of our choices. Because if we don't, then it won't matter, and if we do control ourselves, and we pretend like we don't, we waste our lives.

Joshua_Ritter
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Obscurus

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:20 pm


Joshua_Ritter
I'd first like to start with a Buddhist idea I heard a while ago and has stuck with me.

First of all, we make choices based on our memories, personality, desires, and the information we have. Therefore having different information inside us would make us make different decisions. But is it really as mechanistic as it sounds?

If each decision was made without taking into account who we are, then we would have to rely upon chance, and spin a roulette wheel for every decision possible. That would be madness.

Now, to the Buddhist part. We are slave to our desires in Buddhist thought/cosmology, and they drive us, a natural by-product/counterpart to our karma. But as we progress towards enlightenment, we make choices less on our desires and more on our true nature, whatever that may be. The culmination of the idea is that when you become enlightened, you no longer have any desires, nor do you move in karma, good or bad, but rather your decisions unfold naturally out of your true will.



And if that was obtuse and confusing, let me end on a practical note.

Regardless of the reality, it only makes sense to make choices as if we had free will, and were in control of our choices. Because if we don't, then it won't matter, and if we do control ourselves, and we pretend like we don't, we waste our lives.


I like to look at it from a more social perspective myself. The author of the book I'm reading that spurred me to make this topic suggests we carry on with the illusion of free will because if we don't we could be headed down a very dark path.

Our entire civilization is based on the notion that we are in control of our actions and we are responsible for the consequences of those actions. If we don't actually have control and science can support that, how long before serial killers cite this in order to be set free? They weren't in control of their actions because they don't have free will. How can a society ethically punish someone for something outside of their control? Do you see where that train of thought leads? Very dark territory indeed.

I intentionally left out my own views on free will because I want to see where this topic goes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:27 pm


No one is free from influence, no one has true free will.

stupidkid23

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