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(Indeed another Haiku...)

Senseless and pointless
It brings sadness and despair
It will never end

did you even read my last critique? or do you even respect the mastery of the art of the English language?

what is senseless and pointless? how do we know it's senseless and pointless? last i looked, ALL wars have been fought for a reason (meaning they all have a point, making them not pointless) you wouldn't say World War 2 was fought pointlessly; THEY BROUGHT DOWN THE NAZIS! and they all make sense to the leaders who push for war; in their minds, it brings happiness to their people, or their regime, and brings hope for a better world.


if i have to state this again, i think i'm just going to explode! burning_eyes

haiku are centered around a theme of NATURE; senryu just keep the 5-7-5 syllable structure.

Untrue. Wars may suck, but that doesn't make them pointless.


So, hypothetically, a war started to free a country or people from oppression...shouldn't be fought?


Can't actually speak for 2pound, but my guess would be he was using that as an example that disproved her point, not claiming that she was referring only to wars in which America was involved.


Prove it.


And to avoid war, we could have simply let him have his way, no? Because war is so pointless?

Quote:

so point in case,

Case in point.


You know, you may not agree with the point Hitler had to fight a war, but that doesn't mean it was pointless.


It creeps me out a little how you get so angry when people state opinions that differ from your own. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you should "back off"?

Which sticky on the poetry page? Be specific and tell me why this is at all relevant.


And yet you haven't made a good case as to why.


Do you try to be this stupid or is it a natural gift?

Yes, obviously in a perfect world where there or no oppressors or or dictators we wouldn't need wars. However, I don't know about you, but I don't live in a perfect world. I live in a world where men in Afghanistan brutalize their wives over ridiculous infraction, a world where Hitler was able to rise into power. This is why wars are needed--to protect people from being victimized. To set people free.

After all, honey, if it weren't for war, we'd still be British (you can thank my brother for that point).

Wars fought over stretches of desert? Wars fought for monetary gain? I'll agree--they suck and shouldn't be fought. However, they still have a point. A point that you and I may both disagree with, but still a goddamn point.


Just did. Also, why don't you prove they're NOT needed. You haven't bothered to make a case, you've just whined about how senseless they are. Show me how a world where no war is fought is better than the world we have now--without changing all the shitty parts of the world.


Because I'm an eternal optimist. I'd like to think that even if my points are ignored by the idiot I'm arguing with, at least someone else might understand what I'm saying.


Uh. What? This is the second "philosophical" discussion I've had with you, and you started arguing with me on the first one. So. Don't try to act like you're a victim here, honey.


Baby, I never said anything about you arguing with me. I'm wondering why it is that you pick fights with people who critique poetry and tell them to keep their opinions to themselves. You have no problem with stating your opinion, so why should 2pound "back off" as you so eloquently put it?

why?

really? so, if there's an oppressive government and the only way to get rid of him is to wage war, are you telling me you'd rather not fight?

however, this isn't helping matters; what i said was that the poet wasn't being specific; how are wars pointless? in what ways? since it isn't specified, the poem becomes vague, again, just like last time, it's lazy writing! unacceptable, seeing as how i told the poet exactly the same thing last time.

no; you're assuming that i was only talking about american involvement; i never mentioned america; i mentioned the nazis (and we, collectively, talks of the opposing side, included many nations, did you know i am a Mexican and that Mexico participated in the war? why didn't you assume i was talking about the Mexicans?)

and moreover, you are talking of things that don't make sense: why are you defending the poem's stand on wars being pointless if you don't even know what wars she's talking about and if they are even pointless? aren't we supposed to talk about the poem and help the poet craft a poem?

you just contradicted yourself; "all wars are pointless such as WW2: fought because it was started by a senseless maniac" does it matter who started it? if the point of the war is clear, why say it's pointless?


no, i won't back off because you told me to, only if the original poster (or the higher-ups) tell me to; you talk as if you don't care how many people have died for freedom, discarding their sacrifice for your own egomaniac purpose of defending a rather anti-american and very disrespectful viewpoint. so maybe you should back off instead of me.


thank you for defending me, but i think i should respectfully say that i need no such thing; i know when i'm wrong and i know when to back off and i also know when i'm right (or more right than others) and when i can stand up for what i say.

however, when somebody states "prove it" in a poetic argument, i wast taught that something is not right: poetry is hardly the place to prove anything; it's all opinion-based and thus very hard to prove anything. even though you're talking about the wars in this case, i think you should understand that though wars may not be pointless, it doesn't make her poem wrong nor your opinion right; it only means that you have more information to back up your opinion than she does, but there are characteristics in war that may be considered pointless, which is what i'm trying to get her to tell me, what characteristics is she talking about and also that she should incorporate them (or at least one) into her poem.

there is merit in both sides; all it takes is enough imagination to write about it and i'm trying to help this poet achieve that; so, in essence, i'm telling you to NOT argue but to provide a means to get the poet to show us why she said what she said in order for you to help her incorporate that into her poem.


whew! what a mouthful!

a final word of advice: if everyone here is going to continue, i might just drop it here.
help the poet understand the reason(s) why their poetry isn't working rather than shove egotistical viewpoints into everyone else's uncaring faces. this goes for me too, seeing as how i also had a part in this, and so as not to be backhandedly called a hypocrite, rather i'll take my responsibility where it is due.

seriously, people, HELP THE POET! that's what we're here for, isn't it?

I only have one thing to comment on this because it bothered me...

2pund-> She didn't recieve your message on the poetic style being Senryu and not Haiku due to the fact these((meaning the two poems you've commented on of hers)) were posted moments apart from each other. So please dont blame her for saying it's a Haiku when she did not know of the Senryu style at the date the poem was posted. I'm sure telling her once it enough. I realise you might not have noticed the post dates and just felt like you should know.

As for help goes, topics like war are hard to discuss in Haiku/Senryu style, perhaps freeverse or other poetic styles would allow room for explination on your opinion. I find Haiku are better suited for figuritive language with out much of a deep meaning, so conveying opinion in them leaves readers unsatisfied. Other then that I much enjoyed reading this poem.

cram it 2pound, you can shove it