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That is quite doubtful, as popluar sweepers like SDLuke, Infernape and TauntDos would continue to keep such Pokemon (and thier respectable stall tactics of grass-types) down. I personally don't agree with Mence going to Ubers and I wouldn't doubt this decisions gets overturned the same way Latias coming out of Ubers did.




Most definitely, but just like before, this conversation will be taken public once we have undertaken this discussion ourselves first.

I'm surprised- very surprised. Gutsy move, Smogon. I'm not sure if I'm completely in agreement, but... -shrug-

...Oh, who the hell am I kidding. Expect me to be Anti-ubers, if we have a thread debating Salamence's placement. :3

I'm with Kurai, placing it in ubers is just tryin to give the ones that have little to no battle experience more of a chance. Smogon isnt the ruler of Pokemon, Just cause a Pokemon is strong doesnt mean it cant be taken down. A well timed earthquake + fire move combo could take down dialga, depending on Arceus' type in battle the proper counter move could demolish it. or the infamous focus sash +endeavor +quick attack set (which the set could be destroyed by Extreme Speed), and taking down Salamence is a piece of cake with ice moves and some ground moves. >.<

This is almost the same thing as Garchomp and no sees it........


Just like Garchomp Salamence can easily fall. But think of this. How many people who make OU teams have ice attacks? Now why do they have these ice attacks? There are two pokemon that fear ice in the metagame for the most part. The feared Salamence that can break any wall, and the weaker dragonite.

Both Salamence and Scizor force teams to care a counter just for them. Scizor is not being tested at the moment though so leave it alone.

And for those saying comparing it to ubers and saying both can be taken down are not looking at this very clearly since it is common knowledge that every pokemon has a weakness.

Think of this as an OU team maker. Not as one pokemon vs another. Salamence can fill as any kind of sweeper and a very bulky pokemon. It is tied for 15th in speed including the ubers, 5th in terms of attack power, 11th in special attack, and finally it is in the top 200 for any other stat. With those stats it is a force that almost no pokemon can stand against. To top it off Salamence has the move pool to use these stats perfectly. Powerful offensive combined with Dragon dance and roost if it is a bulky version. Lets not forget that it has one of the most useful abilities in the game.

If the stats alone don't prove it is very strong lets compare how predictable it is to other pokemon of the tier. Most pokemon have only a couple usable move sets. More then likely the main prediction is what item it is carrying. Scizor is the main over used pokemon other then Salamence but there are only two sets. Either it is a bulky sword dance set with bullet punch, u-turn/x-scissor and roost, or the scizor is a choice scizor with bullet punch, u-turn, super power, and pursuit. Either way one knows what is coming, with salamence though that is not the case. Zetshimaru could list a whole bunch of sets that salamence commonly uses and a few not so common sets. So on top of the fact that Salamence has great stats, a move pool to match, and a great ability, it also has a much higher "random" factor then other pokemon.

After saying all this Zetshimaru doesn't care too much if it is uber or not but Zetshimaru sees that it is more powerful then most pokemon in the OU game. Mainly for the fact that it has so many different uses and the only for sure counter is to hope one can hit it with an ice attack or kill it with stealth rocks.

Zetchimaru has good statements but all this was discussed a year ago in SU i'm not surprised it finally happen

]http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2826033#post2826033

I see a rise in Dragonite and Flygon useage to be honest.

Notice: Thank you very much Zet for bringing this topic back to our attention, but unfortunately this thread is being temporarily locked to disfuse any further debate on this topic on this thread. From now on, please continue any further debate (Pro-Uber or Pro-OU) on the tier debate thread. Thank you.