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Eloquent Conversationalist
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 Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:04 pm
I've been out of town and away from net access for a week, and I come back to this? People, be respectful of one another. Don't be asking questions about one another's genitals -- that is SO NOT modest.
This is a Jewish guild, created by our good friend darkphoenix1247 for the specific purpose of encouraging Jewish knowledge and observance. Circumcision is a part of that. The guild itself is behind circumcision, even if every single one of its members were against it, which we're not.
That said, there are arguments against circumcision (which divineseraph has offered, so thanks for that) and arguments for it (which have been touched upon by pretty much everyone else, but not exhaustively). No one is convincing anyone else of anything, so let's move on to something else.
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:46 pm
I'd like to hear if there was any fallout regarding that bill?
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:21 am
This just in...
http://www.wickedlocal.com/bedford/news/x1447152455/Beacon-Hill-Roll-Call
No circumcision (S 1777) The Judiciary Committee rejected a measure that would ban male circumcision of anyone under the age of 18 unless medically necessary. The measure would impose a fine and/or up to 14 years in prison on anyone who violates this ban.
So yeah, it died in committee.
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:47 am
kingpinsqeezels Oh please...It's not harming anyone. You're blowing this out of proportion because you're making it into an emotional debate. If you don't like it, don't do it, but parents have every right to do what they think is necessary for their child. I had surgeries when I was 3 months, and it's not like I had a say in my parents decision, but they did what they thought was right. But remember buddy, you're in the Jewish Gaians Guild. You're not going to convert many of us, but that's okay. We can respect your opinion if you will respect ours, which as of right now you're not doing a very good job at. If you don't like to have a X carved into your back, then don't have it happen to you. You're an idiot.
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:48 am
Behatzlacha-S LordNeuf Behatzlacha-S Can I ask a personal question, Divineseraph? You're gonna ask "what religion are you?" aren't you? Well, there's that. I was gonna ask about Divineseraph's... status, too. Personally, I think the only people who should have a word in on the snip are medical professionals and those who've had it done. Relevance? Do I need to have a X cut into my back to fight against that?
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:19 pm
divineseraph Behatzlacha-S LordNeuf Behatzlacha-S Can I ask a personal question, Divineseraph? You're gonna ask "what religion are you?" aren't you? Well, there's that. I was gonna ask about Divineseraph's... status, too. Personally, I think the only people who should have a word in on the snip are medical professionals and those who've had it done. Relevance? Do I need to have a X cut into my back to fight against that? Sorry this argument ended at the whim of the guild captain.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:27 am
Divineseraph: It's one thing to say "I don't like your ideas" and it's another thing to directly call someone an idiot. Behave respectfully to your Guild-mates.
Neuf: The DISCUSSION (respectful sharing of opposing viewpoints) didn't end on a whim. The ARGUMENT (disrespectful handling of other people because they disagree with the speaker), however, needs to be shut down.
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:12 am
divineseraph kingpinsqeezels Oh please...It's not harming anyone. You're blowing this out of proportion because you're making it into an emotional debate. If you don't like it, don't do it, but parents have every right to do what they think is necessary for their child. I had surgeries when I was 3 months, and it's not like I had a say in my parents decision, but they did what they thought was right. But remember buddy, you're in the Jewish Gaians Guild. You're not going to convert many of us, but that's okay. We can respect your opinion if you will respect ours, which as of right now you're not doing a very good job at. If you don't like to have a X carved into your back, then don't have it happen to you. You're an idiot. I notice that you ignored a good chunk of her argument there. I'm going to bring it back up, since it has relevance to me. Shortly after I was born (I'm not sure of the time, it was before my first year was over) one of my kidneys went septic and had to be cut out. I would have died if it wasn't. Certainly removing an organ is harmful to a person. If your stance is that no harm should ever be inflicted without a child's consent, then what do you do in a situation like mine? Inflict harm and save a life, or wait for me to be old enough to consent and bury me because of it?
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:04 am
Dis Domnu divineseraph kingpinsqeezels Oh please...It's not harming anyone. You're blowing this out of proportion because you're making it into an emotional debate. If you don't like it, don't do it, but parents have every right to do what they think is necessary for their child. I had surgeries when I was 3 months, and it's not like I had a say in my parents decision, but they did what they thought was right. But remember buddy, you're in the Jewish Gaians Guild. You're not going to convert many of us, but that's okay. We can respect your opinion if you will respect ours, which as of right now you're not doing a very good job at. If you don't like to have a X carved into your back, then don't have it happen to you. You're an idiot. I notice that you ignored a good chunk of her argument there. I'm going to bring it back up, since it has relevance to me. Shortly after I was born (I'm not sure of the time, it was before my first year was over) one of my kidneys went septic and had to be cut out. I would have died if it wasn't. Certainly removing an organ is harmful to a person. If your stance is that no harm should ever be inflicted without a child's consent, then what do you do in a situation like mine? Inflict harm and save a life, or wait for me to be old enough to consent and bury me because of it? that was a life or death situation. If your parents decided they just didn't like the idea of having two kidneys, or thought that God wanted you to have only one kidney, should they be allowed to have it removed from YOUR body? This argument is so poorly constructed and misses the point so badly, I can hardly call it a strawman logical fallacy. The point is not that "Surgery is wrong if you can not consent to it" nor "Tradition is bad because it is old". My argument, again and again, is "Harming another person without their consent is wrong." Saving someone's life, even if it means removing an organ or limb, is different than simply believing that they should have a part removed, mutilated, cut, tattooed, or pierced. Yes, piercing a baby's ear is wrong too.
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:45 am
divineseraph Dis Domnu divineseraph kingpinsqeezels Oh please...It's not harming anyone. You're blowing this out of proportion because you're making it into an emotional debate. If you don't like it, don't do it, but parents have every right to do what they think is necessary for their child. I had surgeries when I was 3 months, and it's not like I had a say in my parents decision, but they did what they thought was right. But remember buddy, you're in the Jewish Gaians Guild. You're not going to convert many of us, but that's okay. We can respect your opinion if you will respect ours, which as of right now you're not doing a very good job at. If you don't like to have a X carved into your back, then don't have it happen to you. You're an idiot. I notice that you ignored a good chunk of her argument there. I'm going to bring it back up, since it has relevance to me. Shortly after I was born (I'm not sure of the time, it was before my first year was over) one of my kidneys went septic and had to be cut out. I would have died if it wasn't. Certainly removing an organ is harmful to a person. If your stance is that no harm should ever be inflicted without a child's consent, then what do you do in a situation like mine? Inflict harm and save a life, or wait for me to be old enough to consent and bury me because of it? that was a life or death situation. If your parents decided they just didn't like the idea of having two kidneys, or thought that God wanted you to have only one kidney, should they be allowed to have it removed from YOUR body? This argument is so poorly constructed and misses the point so badly, I can hardly call it a strawman logical fallacy. The point is not that "Surgery is wrong if you can not consent to it" nor "Tradition is bad because it is old". My argument, again and again, is "Harming another person without their consent is wrong." Saving someone's life, even if it means removing an organ or limb, is different than simply believing that they should have a part removed, mutilated, cut, tattooed, or pierced. Yes, piercing a baby's ear is wrong too. Sorry, but you can't just brush everything aside by misrepresenting it. No one said you were only trash talking tradition, and I only asked a question to see how you would respond. So knock off the bullshit. Now. Invasive surgery is harmful. You never said "harming someone without their consent is wrong unless you believe you're saving their life". Those words never passed your fingers. I, and others, were well within our rights to ask for clarification on this particular point. Just as I'm well within my rights to ask about other invasive surgeries that are not vital to a child's life, such as having tonsils removed. Are all such "harmful" medical procedures off limits?
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:06 am
Divash Neuf: The DISCUSSION (respectful sharing of opposing viewpoints) didn't end on a whim. The ARGUMENT (disrespectful handling of other people because they disagree with the speaker), however, needs to be shut down. I was still calling a halt to it, and judging by the last exchange I think we can put this one to bed.
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Agreed, Neuf, and good call.
Let it go, people.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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