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I'm afraid there's a lot of oversimplification going on in this thread.


First of all, there are some things that we believe simply because our intuition tells us that they are so. Belief in some standard of right and wrong is an example of this, for many people-- they may not believe in God, but they 'know' what Hitler did was wrong in some real way. I think this is the category that Julri and Artto are talking about when they question whether we have a 'choice' about our beliefs. Well, in this society, we have the choice to believe what our intuition tells us with relatively little outside pressure (modern liberal rights), although of course we don't get to consciously choose what our intuition tells us.

Second, however, there are some things that we believe because we have been raised to believe them and which we have never stopped to question. This does not mean either that they are necessarily wrong or that we cannot *choose* to change them if we reexamine them.

Third, there are some things that we believe because of experience. Obviously, experience can be skewed, and new experiences or evidence could cause us to change these beliefs. We do get to *choose* how to interpret our experiences.

Fourth, there are things that we believe because we want to believe them. These are the things we deceive ourselves about-- most people don't believe they have very many faults. We can *choose* to stop deceiving ourselves about these things if we gain enough perspective to realize what we're doing (although we may also choose, on some semi-conscious level, to continue because it is more comfortable).

Fifth, there are some things that we believe because we have deliberated on them and have come to a conclusion on them from reasoning. We can *choose* to believe whatever we think is the most logical conclusion, or we can simply pursue logic to justify whatever we already want to believe.

Finally, there are the vast majority of our beliefs, which fall somewhere in-between the above categories-- influenced by a mix of intuition, unconscious choice, conscious choice, reasoning, and environment. biggrin

@Nebulance:

I agree that we have some control over the process with which we discern what is real or not, but I wouldn't classify the final conclusion as a choice. Even if you "lie to yourself", I think deep down you still know it isn't true.
But I think I'm being overly focused on semantics here. razz

I think we have some ability to choose what we believe, but on a basic level I'm not really sure we have as much control over it as we may like to think.

I grew up in a Christian family. My mom dragged me to church every Sunday for years. But I'm not a Christian, and It wasn't for lack of giving it a try. So I wouldn't say how we were brought up always influences us.

But I've had lots of people try and convert me back since then. And I find that even if I wanted to I couldn't. Why?

Well, thats just how I percieve things. It's like this:

the background I am typing on is white. That's what I see. You can say
"Lee, you need to believe that background is pink and orange with purple spots or you will burn in hell forever!"

Even if I was afraid of burning in hell for not seeing these colors, I don't see the colors. No amount of telling me the background is pink, orange and purple will change that I see white. Not amount of scaring me with hell will change that I see white. At best I can MAYBE go through a sort of self-brainwashing kinda thing and try and make myself believe, but really I'm just lying to myself. People can delude themselves pretty damn well. But no matter what I do, I see white. I didn't choose to see it. Thats what I see.

In a way, we all choose our beliefs.
We choose what to accept as fake or reality and what seems to be logical or illogical.

But it all comes to a mental standpoint.
Do you see a white background or is there a possibility what you see is incorrect?

i was going to a pentecostal church.

the leader got some material from the Assembly of God and started telling us how we all owed him obedience as our spiritual leader and it was biblical and we had to sign a contract to follow his orders

and we all just walked out.

this is America, you can't MAKE anybody believe anything. we can vote with our feet.

as for me, my parents encouraged me to experiment with many faiths and denominations, and i chose the one with which i felt the greatest compatability.

We generally believe what we were taught to believe as a child. Children have a remarkable capacity for taking what their parents tell them as true no matter what. Good for general survival "Don't put your hand in that electrical socket!" Not so good for religion "God loves you very much!" This gets ingrained in a child's head and is stored for the rest of their life.

Now there are exceptions to this rule, I am one of them, lol. Sometimes a child may reject what their parent's told them. This however is extremely hard to do because it is ingrained on the child's psyche as true no matter what. We also see this in the general survival cases.

If the child is taught to think for them self and not necessarily believe everything they hear right away, I believe that the person will eventually stumble upon what they will believe through whatever means. Religion has alot to do with emotion and emotion will play a part in that.