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DJ Arctic Wolf

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:00 am


Saelune
Eve if the Bible said gays are bad, it should not matter since we should not let a story book rule our lives and think for ourselves. That is all I will say since anything else I say that I think should be said will get me in trouble.


freedom of speech sweetie. thats what we're all about in America.

personally, i think there are some parts of the Bible that are just plain wrong. i am Catholic and im probably going to Hell for this (probably... sweatdrop ) but the book needs to be rewritten in some areas.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:04 am


DJ Arctic Wolf
Saelune
Eve if the Bible said gays are bad, it should not matter since we should not let a story book rule our lives and think for ourselves. That is all I will say since anything else I say that I think should be said will get me in trouble.


freedom of speech sweetie. thats what we're all about in America.

personally, i think there are some parts of the Bible that are just plain wrong. i am Catholic and im probably going to Hell for this (probably... sweatdrop ) but the book needs to be rewritten in some areas.
Well, freedom of speech protects me from being prosecuted by the federal government. It does not however, keep me from being kicked out of the guild for breaking their babying "dont bash religion" rule. Anything I say is often viewed as bashing religion. Maybe it is, but I would argue that its fine, since we seem to be allowed to bash murderers and the like. But now I am treading dangerous water, and I know what I will say will get me in trouble. It usually does and I end up being villianized for being the victim fighting back.

Saelune

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Emma Goldenive

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:13 am


I think Jesus was a great guy and he probably wouldn't aprove of todays version of Christianity he wud be called a socialist by many and wud be perfectly fine with diffrent religons and people being gay. I'm not religous (and im not atheist either cus i belive in a higher power or god) but I think about what wud Jesus do? or wat wud Mohammad do? People are just xenophobic which means your affraid of people being diffrent than you in result there homophobic too
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:39 pm


Saelune
DJ Arctic Wolf
Saelune
Eve if the Bible said gays are bad, it should not matter since we should not let a story book rule our lives and think for ourselves. That is all I will say since anything else I say that I think should be said will get me in trouble.


freedom of speech sweetie. thats what we're all about in America.

personally, i think there are some parts of the Bible that are just plain wrong. i am Catholic and im probably going to Hell for this (probably... sweatdrop ) but the book needs to be rewritten in some areas.
Well, freedom of speech protects me from being prosecuted by the federal government. It does not however, keep me from being kicked out of the guild for breaking their babying "dont bash religion" rule. Anything I say is often viewed as bashing religion. Maybe it is, but I would argue that its fine, since we seem to be allowed to bash murderers and the like. But now I am treading dangerous water, and I know what I will say will get me in trouble. It usually does and I end up being villianized for being the victim fighting back.


Well here's the thing.
Murdering someone is a breech of social contract. They've essentially ostracized themselves from society through their actions, and thus we don't really give a s**t what people think of them.

Being religious is not a breech of social contract. For the most part, a person's private religious beliefs don't harm other people - my belief in one God who created the universe etc. doesn't do jack s**t to you. By saying negative things about my practice, you're invalidating my experience. Who the hell do you think you are to say the way I'm living my life is wrong?

You're not the victim fighting back. Me being a Reform Jew hasn't done jack s**t to you. By attacking my belief in God, you're essentially making personal attacks against me, when the only thing I've done is try to personally reach a higher spiritual state.

Also, free speech protects a lot more than being prosecuted by the Federal Government. The important thing is that while you are free to say what you want, you are not free to say what you want without social consequences. If you want to post about how much you hate God, Jesus, Mohammed and on down the line, you're free to do so. But there are consequences, and typically it isn't worth it.

Tldr: Don't be an ignorant d**k, religious people being religious aren't harming you, its religious people taking it upon themselves to make their religion public issue that are the problem.

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Lady Kayura

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:40 pm


Saelune
Well, freedom of speech protects me from being prosecuted by the federal government. It does not however, keep me from being kicked out of the guild for breaking their babying "dont bash religion" rule. Anything I say is often viewed as bashing religion. Maybe it is, but I would argue that its fine, since we seem to be allowed to bash murderers and the like. But now I am treading dangerous water, and I know what I will say will get me in trouble. It usually does and I end up being villianized for being the victim fighting back.


There is a big difference between bashing religion and disagreeing with it. I don't like what a lot of Christians do and have done and the institutions of the christian religion have done a lot of wrong. But that doesn't mean the group as a whole is bad.

Bashing the group as a whole ignores the fact that it's made up of individuals with different opinions and not all are bad. There are some great Christians out there and there are some bad. But to bash the whole group bashes the good. How is that fair? It isn't.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:06 pm


xMortui vivos docent
This should be stickied. Really. I wish every Christian would actually read the bible and think about the historical time period it was written before making silly assumptions. I used to believe in 'God', but it wasn't my thing. :S I felt it was too contradictory; how could a god of love and forgiveness enjoy having so many people killed during the crusades over a city - weren't all humans his children and murder was wrong (even if it was in the name of Him/Her)?

But this is really useful information for gay Christians to stand against fanatical Christians.

Maybe one day, Christians will chill out. That would be great.

Do take into consideration though, as I was told, that (supposing there is a god) we do not understand God's ways and simply can't comprehend his methods or reasoning because our knowledge is so limited and none of us could possibly know everything there is to know. aka deaths, tragedy, wars etc. may seem cruel to us but might serve some unknown purpose or outcome. Like the saying, "there's a method to my madness"

just an Idea I found interesting, don't have to believe it of course.

CheizLord

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CheizLord

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 pm


You know, I was just watching the lifetime movie, Prayers For Bobby when I stumbled upon this...

In all honesty it's not even the belief that it's wrong for me it's the hatred that comes with it. I have a friend who's a devout christian and he finds homosexuality to be a sin, and even though he thinks i'm probably going to hell he'll find ways to joke around with me about girls and listen to my women problems. He does the same with his gay male friends so I know it's not just because I'm a lesbian.

Even if logically it makes sense, as you've clearly pointed out that these passages are either twisted interpretations or outdated it won't matter because these people have associated negative attitudes with homosexuality because of the environment they were raised in. ever heard the expression "rose tinted glasses"? the same concept applies with religious beliefs despite factual evidence.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:09 pm


Wear Sunscreen
Saelune
DJ Arctic Wolf
Saelune
Eve if the Bible said gays are bad, it should not matter since we should not let a story book rule our lives and think for ourselves. That is all I will say since anything else I say that I think should be said will get me in trouble.


freedom of speech sweetie. thats what we're all about in America.

personally, i think there are some parts of the Bible that are just plain wrong. i am Catholic and im probably going to Hell for this (probably... sweatdrop ) but the book needs to be rewritten in some areas.
Well, freedom of speech protects me from being prosecuted by the federal government. It does not however, keep me from being kicked out of the guild for breaking their babying "dont bash religion" rule. Anything I say is often viewed as bashing religion. Maybe it is, but I would argue that its fine, since we seem to be allowed to bash murderers and the like. But now I am treading dangerous water, and I know what I will say will get me in trouble. It usually does and I end up being villianized for being the victim fighting back.


Well here's the thing.
Murdering someone is a breech of social contract. They've essentially ostracized themselves from society through their actions, and thus we don't really give a s**t what people think of them.

Being religious is not a breech of social contract. For the most part, a person's private religious beliefs don't harm other people - my belief in one God who created the universe etc. doesn't do jack s**t to you. By saying negative things about my practice, you're invalidating my experience. Who the hell do you think you are to say the way I'm living my life is wrong?

You're not the victim fighting back. Me being a Reform Jew hasn't done jack s**t to you. By attacking my belief in God, you're essentially making personal attacks against me, when the only thing I've done is try to personally reach a higher spiritual state.

Also, free speech protects a lot more than being prosecuted by the Federal Government. The important thing is that while you are free to say what you want, you are not free to say what you want without social consequences. If you want to post about how much you hate God, Jesus, Mohammed and on down the line, you're free to do so. But there are consequences, and typically it isn't worth it.

Tldr: Don't be an ignorant d**k, religious people being religious aren't harming you, its religious people taking it upon themselves to make their religion public issue that are the problem.
You said "By saying negative things about my practice, you're invalidating my experience. Who the hell do you think you are to say the way I'm living my life is wrong?"

Think about that comment in relation to religion and homosexuallity and you will hopefulyl understand where I am coming from. If not, then there is no point talking to you.

Saelune

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Saelune

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:11 pm


Lady Kayura
Saelune
Well, freedom of speech protects me from being prosecuted by the federal government. It does not however, keep me from being kicked out of the guild for breaking their babying "dont bash religion" rule. Anything I say is often viewed as bashing religion. Maybe it is, but I would argue that its fine, since we seem to be allowed to bash murderers and the like. But now I am treading dangerous water, and I know what I will say will get me in trouble. It usually does and I end up being villianized for being the victim fighting back.


There is a big difference between bashing religion and disagreeing with it. I don't like what a lot of Christians do and have done and the institutions of the christian religion have done a lot of wrong. But that doesn't mean the group as a whole is bad.

Bashing the group as a whole ignores the fact that it's made up of individuals with different opinions and not all are bad. There are some great Christians out there and there are some bad. But to bash the whole group bashes the good. How is that fair? It isn't.
I actually have a rationalized reason as to why, but I already see where all this is leading and I rather not push more.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:19 pm


Saelune
Wear Sunscreen
Saelune
DJ Arctic Wolf
Saelune
Eve if the Bible said gays are bad, it should not matter since we should not let a story book rule our lives and think for ourselves. That is all I will say since anything else I say that I think should be said will get me in trouble.


freedom of speech sweetie. thats what we're all about in America.

personally, i think there are some parts of the Bible that are just plain wrong. i am Catholic and im probably going to Hell for this (probably... sweatdrop ) but the book needs to be rewritten in some areas.
Well, freedom of speech protects me from being prosecuted by the federal government. It does not however, keep me from being kicked out of the guild for breaking their babying "dont bash religion" rule. Anything I say is often viewed as bashing religion. Maybe it is, but I would argue that its fine, since we seem to be allowed to bash murderers and the like. But now I am treading dangerous water, and I know what I will say will get me in trouble. It usually does and I end up being villianized for being the victim fighting back.


Well here's the thing.
Murdering someone is a breech of social contract. They've essentially ostracized themselves from society through their actions, and thus we don't really give a s**t what people think of them.

Being religious is not a breech of social contract. For the most part, a person's private religious beliefs don't harm other people - my belief in one God who created the universe etc. doesn't do jack s**t to you. By saying negative things about my practice, you're invalidating my experience. Who the hell do you think you are to say the way I'm living my life is wrong?

You're not the victim fighting back. Me being a Reform Jew hasn't done jack s**t to you. By attacking my belief in God, you're essentially making personal attacks against me, when the only thing I've done is try to personally reach a higher spiritual state.

Also, free speech protects a lot more than being prosecuted by the Federal Government. The important thing is that while you are free to say what you want, you are not free to say what you want without social consequences. If you want to post about how much you hate God, Jesus, Mohammed and on down the line, you're free to do so. But there are consequences, and typically it isn't worth it.

Tldr: Don't be an ignorant d**k, religious people being religious aren't harming you, its religious people taking it upon themselves to make their religion public issue that are the problem.
You said "By saying negative things about my practice, you're invalidating my experience. Who the hell do you think you are to say the way I'm living my life is wrong?"

Think about that comment in relation to religion and homosexuallity and you will hopefulyl understand where I am coming from. If not, then there is no point talking to you.


The problem is that you're saying all religion is bad, which is a HUGE sweeping generalization. Your rationale? All religion is opposed to gay people.

Well, you're telling me that my religion, Reform Judaism, which has wed same-sex couples and ordained queer clergy for decades, is bad because we're against homosexuality?

I'm not saying other people should project their personal life onto yours, in fact, I'm saying exactly the opposite. I'm pointing out that by saying all religion is bad, you're doing something worse than saying homosexuality is bad because you alienate your allies.

You're not the damn victim. Every religious person on earth is not burning you at the stake for homosexuality, so why are you throwing the religious baby out with the bathwater?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:21 pm


Saelune
Lady Kayura
Saelune
Well, freedom of speech protects me from being prosecuted by the federal government. It does not however, keep me from being kicked out of the guild for breaking their babying "dont bash religion" rule. Anything I say is often viewed as bashing religion. Maybe it is, but I would argue that its fine, since we seem to be allowed to bash murderers and the like. But now I am treading dangerous water, and I know what I will say will get me in trouble. It usually does and I end up being villianized for being the victim fighting back.


There is a big difference between bashing religion and disagreeing with it. I don't like what a lot of Christians do and have done and the institutions of the christian religion have done a lot of wrong. But that doesn't mean the group as a whole is bad.

Bashing the group as a whole ignores the fact that it's made up of individuals with different opinions and not all are bad. There are some great Christians out there and there are some bad. But to bash the whole group bashes the good. How is that fair? It isn't.
I actually have a rationalized reason as to why, but I already see where all this is leading and I rather not push more.


Please, I'd really like to hear it.
I'd like to know what kind of rational argument you can come up with for bashing two billion people in light of postmodern advances in thinking and a purported compassion for others.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:57 am


Saelune
I actually have a rationalized reason as to why, but I already see where all this is leading and I rather not push more.


I'd love to hear your reasons. PM me with them.

Lady Kayura

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Solemn Insanity

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:13 am


User Image User ImageUser ImageUser Image


♒Live in the moment♒

According to my knowledge (my parents are Christian and have sent me to a Christian school since I was young, but I lost my faith at age 13) the Bible doesn't say "gays are bad" directly, but only that homosexuality is.
In any case, I think many Christians are narrow-minded or homophobic. I know a few that are very nice and will accept people the way they are.
However, I think that the Bible should be interpreted as "hate the sin, love the sinner." It would make the world a better place, in my opinion. If we just let each other be ourselves, then it would be more peaceful. Don't hate on other people, because who are you to judge? Honestly, you're not an angel yourself, are you? So let people be. Race, religion, orientation, why does it matter? We're all the same on the inside, though we have different preferences. We're all humans, so what's with the hate? I'm not trying to sound like a hippie, but come on. Learn to accept other people and you'll make your life a lot better. If you stop worrying about other people or what they think of you, then you'll be able to focus on your life.
I'm not religious, but I don't hate Christians. I get annoyed if they preach at me, but I understand the concern. My parents may be homophobic, but they still accept me and the fact that I'm bisexual.


♒The past will always be there♒



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