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 Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:14 pm
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Thank you everyone ^^;;
I apologize for sparking a possible debate or whatever so close to Christmas... another example of my not-so-good timing. sweatdrop
Thank you for your two cents, everybody. I think I understand a little better now.
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:20 pm
enter
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spaceHolly Says,
"Don't apologize for the debate, Dairy ^_^ It's important to you, and so I don't mind talking about it =]
I know that dixieboy would have something to say XD I guess I'll answer that instead of moving to the second question. I'll tackle it another time.
@Dixieboy -- The parts in the Bible that you quoted state exactly what you said -- not that God hates them, but God hates SIN. Different. And if you choose to sin, that's your own choice. God expects you to at least try to avoid sinning. If you choose to sin, it is punishable by death. This should be no surprise. God told Adam and Eve this from the very beginning: that the consequence of sin is death. Sin = disobeying God. Gods will = prosperous. If you choose to disobey God, then you're choosing an un-prosperous life and thus, death. This should be no surprise for anyone who knows about Christianity and about God. Paul writes that the wages of sin is death, but the Cross speaks salvation for us.
The Bible doesn't only say that homosexuality is a sin punishable by death, it says that all sins are. It doesn't say that person is hated, it says the sin they are committing is punishable. Just as you wouldn't argue the imprisonment of a person who preyed on children and molested them and murdered them when they were done. By no means am I saying that homosexuals necessarily do those things, but that in God's eyes, sin is sin. Lying is just as bad as homosexuality which are both just as bad as murder.
If a homosexual chooses to not believe in God or to not repent of their sin because they like their life better than the one GOD can provide, then they don't go to heaven. That's not fair? Really? It's not? Lets see. I am a Queen. I tell 10 people that if they run from here to there, I will allow them into my kingdom. No. Into my palace and they will be able happy forever with me. All 10 know that I love them like a child. They think this is a great invitiation, but I say they can only get said prize from running here to there if they do not break the rules. One of the rules: You must stay on the path.
8 people try to run from here to there on the path, but sometimes they get tired and their feet falter and they fall off the path. When they realize they were off the path, they immediately regret and repent, get back on the path and they try their very best to stay on it. Because they did their best, and the Queen knows that they are not perfect, they are allowed into the kingdom.
The 9th person falls off the path and gets distracted by the excitement of being disobedient and rebellious. He decides to stay there.
The 10th person decides to not even run the race, because he is even more distracted than the first person.
Who should win the prize? The 8 people, the 9th person, or the 10th person? The last two do not deserve a prize, since they did not even try to start or finish the race. How is this not fair? Should the 9th and 10th person also get the prize when they did not do what the Queen had asked?
So it is with God and his children.
What about Job? Job is an amazing story which gives much insight into God and his character. If you do not understand the meaning of the story, I suggest you visit a local church so you can. It's quite impressive actually.
I'll be back again XD"
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:39 am
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A very compelling thought, Holly :] The race analogy was much easier for me to understand, I must say.
But I thought of another question recently.
If a person follows God's standards, or rather, tries to; and is a moral person, basically any average Joe or Jane, but they don't believe in, have never been introduced to, or are having trouble with their faith in God, would they still be condemned to Hell? I guess, in your example, it would be similar to an eleventh person running the race, but without knowing what it was for. Would that person still be let into the kingdom?
I mean, if not, it doesn't seem "fair" to me. That person has run the race, even without knowing why. If there's no reward at the end of the race to motivate them, isn't it a greater virtue? Or are they still condemned to exile [Hell] even if they ran their race the best they could?
And then there's the concept of love again. If I'm correct in saying that God loves all His children, then why would He let them be condemned to Hell? Why would He not build a fence on the side of the path to lead them to prosperity and Heaven? If God's way is truly prosperity, then it cannot be for want of happiness etc. And technically, free will can only bring us misery, for it permits us to sin. Why would God willingly condemn us to misery?
Also... when you said that murderers are equal in sin to homosexuals... well... that strikes a chord over here. >_< I know you think differently, but I personally believe that homosexuality is not voluntary, while murder is. Homosexuality is a combination of propaganda, which is often out of the control of the "victim," as well as personality, also shaped by those around the "victim." If homosexuality is shaped by outside forces, then it's not a voluntary [mortal?] sin. You don't just say, "Oh, well, I think I'm going to be a homosexual." and suddenly like people of the same sex. Nor can you simply think, "Oh, no! God doesn't want me to be homosexual! I better stop!" and simply cease to pursue relationships with people you have a true interest in. Cardinal sins are involuntary, mortal ones are voluntary, correct? And mortal sins cannot be forgiven? If that's true, it would prevent Joe - a homosexual with a perfectly moral life, running the race to the "kingdom" as best he can - from going to heaven. It just doesn't seem like something a fair and loving Queen [God] would do.
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:25 pm
Quote: he parts in the Bible that you quoted state exactly what you said -- not that God hates them, It's quite heavily implied. Does he now? Then why does he commit them? Quote: Different. And if you choose to sin, that's your own choice. God expects you to at least try to avoid sinning. If you choose to sin, it is punishable by death. This should be no surprise. Well except for the part where it's DEATH. Oh, and not only will you be killed, you'll also suffer for it eternally afterwards. Because not only will you not be allowed to continue the mortal existence, you shall also be denied an immortal one. Quote: God told Adam and Eve this from the very beginning: that the consequence of sin is death. And he immediately went back on it. So what if you sin in the process of doing gods will? Is it then handwaved, or do you still get punished? Quote: Gods will = prosperous. If you choose to disobey God, then you're choosing an un-prosperous M-W defines prosperous as: 1: auspicious, favorable 2: marked by success or economic well-being b : enjoying vigorous and healthy growth : flourishing Now in regards to 1 I believe we can quite firmly say that murdering people is not auspicious, nor favourable. As for 2: I believe you can find quite a few non-Christian billionaires. Quote: life and thus, death. This should be no surprise for anyone who knows about Christianity and about God. Well kinda, seeing as he is told of as an all-loving, all-forgiving magical sky-daddy who lifts you up when you are down. Quote: Paul writes that the wages of sin is death, Paul is also a complete buffoon. Quote: The Bible doesn't only say that homosexuality is a sin punishable by death, Actually it quite specifically says that homosexuals, among others, should be killed. It doesn't just fall under "Misc. crimes". Quote: t says that all sins are. Ehmm, no? It gives specific punishments for quite a lot of sins, and not all of them death. (And given that death is specifically mentioned in many cases one would assume that it'd be non-standard) Quote: It doesn't say that person is hated, The usage of "Abomination", or the equivalent in whatever language you might read the bible in, does not exactly convey love. Quote: it says the sin they are committing is punishable. By murder. Quote: Just as you wouldn't argue the imprisonment of a person who preyed on children and molested them and murdered them when they were done. By no means am I saying that homosexuals necessarily do those things, but that in God's eyes, sin is sin. Lying is just as bad as homosexuality which are both just as bad as murder. There is no expression, emoticon, or image in existence that can properly convey my reaction to reading this. Quote: If a homosexual chooses to not believe in God or to not repent of their sin because they like their life better than the one GOD can provide, then they don't go to heaven. That's not fair? Really? It's not? Nope. Quote: Lets see. I am a Queen. I tell 10 people that if they run from here to there, I will allow them into my kingdom. No. Into my palace and they will be able happy forever with me. Well, you also say that if they fail they'll be killed by the other guys racing. Quote: All 10 know that I love them like a child. No they don't. 7 of them know OF you, and of those: 3 thinks you're seven kinds of awesome. 3 are undecided. and 1 has actually seen your work and thinks you're a bit of a douche. Quote: They think this is a great invitiation, Well apart from the one dude who knows you are a frequent liar. Quote: but I say they can only get said prize from running here to there if they do not break the rules. One of the rules: You must stay on the path. The rest of the rules are contradictory and confusing, and half of them involve torture and murder. mmm'kay? Also I'll only provide half of you with directions, I'll start two of you off halfway there, and I'll put extra weight on this one dude. Quote: 8 people try to run from here to there on the path, but sometimes they get tired and their feet falter and they fall off the path. How do you fall off a path? I mean, unless it was really narrow, and on really bad terrain that doesn't seem like something that would actually happen. Quote: When they realize they were off the path, they immediately regret and repent, I think your metaphor broke, not that it matters, because you are dead, tortured, fined, mutilated or beaten either way. No, repenting won't do you any good. Quote: get back on the path and they try their very best to stay on it. Because they did their best, andthe Queen knows that they are not perfect, they are allowed into the kingdom. No she doesn't, she had them killed. Or well, some of them. The surviving may or may not enter her palace, depending on which direction they fell of the road. Quote: The last two do not deserve a prize, since they did not even try to start or finish the race. Well the 9th guy did, he just kinda... failed. Because of the conditions. Quote: Should the 9th and 10th person also get the prize when they did not do what the Queen had asked? Off course not, she shouldn't have them executed for their failings though. Quote: So it is with God and his children. By children you mean the people whom he kills for his own amusement, right? Quote: What about Job? Job is an amazing story which gives much insight into God and his character. If you do not understand the meaning of the story, I suggest you visit a local church so you can. It's quite impressive actually. God is a petty murdering douchebag who doesn't give a flying fart about his most devout followers? He let his son kill jobs family and servants for Gygax's sake! And after that he has the gall to show up and tell job off for questioning the reason behind it. Oh sure he gives him back his stuff x10, but it says nothing of Jobs health, or the fate of the deceased. If I was job I'd have punched god in the face when he appeared to me, the theological implications be damned.
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:20 am
Most religions are so full of contradictions that I don't even know where to start.
My opinion: Most or all of the rules provided by organized religions, and of course their sacred texts, were created by men to control - or at least bring some semblance of order to - the populace, based on what they knew and what they thought the people needed. Other traditions were created to promote faith, mostly through symbolism. The bits about only worshiping a specific god were most likely a way of distinguishing Us from Them, as with uniforms, national flags, and the like.
As for #5, the lolzy blasphemous answer: God poked himself in the eye by accident, seconds before creating humans. The real answer: Hell if I know.
There is evidence that suggests homosexuality is perfectly natural. Both heterosexual and homosexual behavioral patterns have been observed in other animals. Given that they lack the capacity for rational thought, I really don't think it's based on choice at all.
Actually, there doesn't seem to be anything to suggest precisely what the creator of existence might be like, if he, she or it even exists at all. The creator could be an utterly malevolent being who created us to derive lulz from our failings. They could simply not care at all about this small piece of rock. Or, religion could actually be right. There are too many possibilities to consider.
*sigh* This is why I decided to be agnostic - maybe there is a god, maybe there isn't, I'm not going to spend my life worrying about it.
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:01 am
Diary-chan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A very compelling thought, Holly :] The race analogy was much easier for me to understand, I must say.
But I thought of another question recently.
If a person follows God's standards, or rather, tries to; and is a moral person, basically any average Joe or Jane, but they don't believe in, have never been introduced to, or are having trouble with their faith in God, would they still be condemned to Hell? I guess, in your example, it would be similar to an eleventh person running the race, but without knowing what it was for. Would that person still be let into the kingdom?
I mean, if not, it doesn't seem "fair" to me. That person has run the race, even without knowing why. If there's no reward at the end of the race to motivate them, isn't it a greater virtue? Or are they still condemned to exile [Hell] even if they ran their race the best they could?
And then there's the concept of love again. If I'm correct in saying that God loves all His children, then why would He let them be condemned to Hell? Why would He not build a fence on the side of the path to lead them to prosperity and Heaven? If God's way is truly prosperity, then it cannot be for want of happiness etc. And technically, free will can only bring us misery, for it permits us to sin. Why would God willingly condemn us to misery?
Also... when you said that murderers are equal in sin to homosexuals... well... that strikes a chord over here. >_< I know you think differently, but I personally believe that homosexuality is not voluntary, while murder is. Homosexuality is a combination of propaganda, which is often out of the control of the "victim," as well as personality, also shaped by those around the "victim." If homosexuality is shaped by outside forces, then it's not a voluntary [mortal?] sin. You don't just say, "Oh, well, I think I'm going to be a homosexual." and suddenly like people of the same sex. Nor can you simply think, "Oh, no! God doesn't want me to be homosexual! I better stop!" and simply cease to pursue relationships with people you have a true interest in. Cardinal sins are involuntary, mortal ones are voluntary, correct? And mortal sins cannot be forgiven? If that's true, it would prevent Joe - a homosexual with a perfectly moral life, running the race to the "kingdom" as best he can - from going to heaven. It just doesn't seem like something a fair and loving Queen [God] would do.
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Well first off, I'm glad that the race analogy helped you understand a little more, but I really have to credit it to Paul, since he talks about it in the Bible XD First off, I've never met a single person who doesn't know the name of Jesus. Of course there are those, but as far as I am concerned, in North America practically everyone knows about Christianity. The Bible doesn't tell us what God's plan is for those, like tribal people for example, who die without knowing the name of God. But I do know that it is recorded that revealed himself to people like Abraham, who wouldn't have known about him otherwise. Or there was this 8 year old girl I read in the news about last year who lived in an atheist home and was sheltered from anything to do with God, yet she came out of her room when she was finger painting in there with a beautiful painting of Jesus. When her parents asked where she got it, she told them that God taught her how to paint. The things she painted afterward were some of the most beautiful paintings I've ever seen. After things like that, no one can persuade me that God doesn't speak to us. If you believe in God as the Bible teaches about Him, then you have to believe that he is just and will deal with people fairly. The Bible is here to teach us how to live, not to teach us what God will do to people who aren't us. Also, God doesn't just want us to be "good people" He wants us to be His people. And if you know about Jesus and you know the gospel, yet turn it down...then you turn God down -- no matter how "good" you are. It says in the Bible that if you reject Jesus, then you reject God. If you reject God, then God rejects you. It makes sense if you think about it. I think I've mentioned this before, but I don't believe the stereotype of Hell is Biblical. Where does it say that we will have eternal punish ingin the Bible? No. Just eternal punishment. God isn't going to throw non-believers into some fire and watch and listen to them scream for all eternity. Read it in Revelations for yourself, it says that the fire is the second death. When we are born in flesh, then we become born again as Christians. We become born in the Holy Spirit. Those who do not believe will die in the flesh and then, in the Spirit. Does this make any sense to you? It's much more complicated than this but I'm trying to shorten it. That said, I think God took the loving course. If you chose against Him and the eternal life he offers, then you chose death. It's not God hating you. It's God respecting your decision. God does not build a fence around us because he wants us to have choice. Do I follow God, or not? If there is a fence, God is restricting our choice. He doesn't want to stick us in a cage, because that gives us no choice. I would say sorry that I struck a chord with you over the homosexuality issue, but I'm not really. To be honest, Jesus offended and so shall I xd He struck chords with people because they didn't understand the truth, or did not want to hear it. I think you're in the first boat -- you just don't understand. I'm glad you're asking about it =] Quote: Homosexuality is a combination of propaganda, which is often out of the control of the "victim," as well as personality, also shaped by those around the "victim." If homosexuality is shaped by outside forces... You're right -- homosexuality is a sin which is a result of outside pressure. You have a regular little boy who is curious about his private parts (which is called sexual curiosity). Or perhaps he thinks it's funny to wear a dress. Etc, etc. Then adults look at him and say "He's homosexual because he likes this or that" and is taught all his life that these things make you homosexual. (This is one example). So then, he is more or less a product of his environment. However, there was a little girl names Dakota in my house (we foster children). She was a huge thief, but had nooooo idea that it was wrong. She was completely convinced that everyone steals and it's normal. She was taught by her parents that if you see something you like, take it. Don't get caught because it's some one elses and they're gonna get mad at you. But take it because if they saw something you like, they'd take it from you too. So she refused to believe that it was wrong because since she could understand English, she was taught to steal. Does that make stealing okay? That's where I'm going to leave this. Sorry it's so long, but there was a lot to explain. I also didn't proofread
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:05 am
Buta no Kaabii There is evidence that suggests homosexuality is perfectly natural. Both heterosexual and homosexual behavioral patterns have been observed in other animals. As a person, God aside and all, I refuse to point at a baboon and say, "LOOK MA! He's doin' it so I can too!" That's ridiculous. Most animals only have the thought patterns of a 5 year old child. Some monkeys, an 8 year old child. Would you point at a little girl or boy and say "look that child is doing something wrong so I'm going to do it too?" That just doesn't fly with me.
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:14 pm
In reply to dixieboy... Quote: Does he now? Then why does he commit them? When does God commit sin? Show me where, and I'll show you you're wrong. Quote: Well except for the part where it's DEATH. Oh, and not only will you be killed, you'll also suffer for it eternally afterwards. Because not only will you not be allowed to continue the mortal existence, you shall also be denied an immortal one. As I said to Dairy-chan, it is an incorrect interpretation of the Bible to say that people are eternally punished. The reason why everyone believes this is because people tend to take other people's word for it, instead of reading the Bible itself. Also because many people take scripture out of context. The wages of sin is death. And when you choose God, you choose the life he offers. If you don't choose God, then you choose against the life He offers, meaning that you choose death. The problem with our society is that most people get out of suffering the consequences of their actions and so they don't think it's right when God makes them suffer the consequences of choosing against the life He offers. Quote: And he immediately went back on it. No He didn't. He said they would die and he did. Did God specify "you will die the very second you taste that apple?" No. He said "Surely, you will die." And they did. They immediately had their eternal life stripped from them and time began to age their bodies. People are confused, God doesn't usually use the "smite" technique. Quote: So what if you sin in the process of doing gods will? Is it then handwaved, or do you still get punished? Can you please further explain your question because you could mean one of two things: You could be asking if you are doing God's will, and then you sin; or you could mean that God tells you "Go kill this person." And so you are doing God's will but are also doing something that normally is considered a sin. Which do you mean? Quote: M-W defines prosperous as: 1: auspicious, favorable 2: marked by success or economic well-being b : enjoying vigorous and healthy growth : flourishing Now in regards to 1 I believe we can quite firmly say that murdering people is not auspicious, nor favourable. As for 2: I believe you can find quite a few non-Christian billionaires. Lol I used the wrong word XDD I simply meant to say that God has a plan for each of us that brings life and well-being. Of course, you can achieve this by your own means, but it is never quite the same as the life you have with God. His plans are always better tyhan our own. Quote: Well kinda, seeing as he is told of as an all-loving, all-forgiving magical sky-daddy who lifts you up when you are down. Magical sky-daddy? XDD hahahahahah rofl Sorry but that just sounded funny =P So God is a "majical sky-daddy" now? XD He's our friend, our true love, our dad, and all those nice things. But He is also our judge. Above all that He is our God. What is wise to man, is foolishness in His eyes. And same for the other way around. He has all knowledge, so who are you to question him? Here is a true account of what happened to a man who questioned God. Go ahead and read how God responds to him. Quote: It doesn't just fall under "Misc. crimes". When did I say that it does? Every sin is punishable by death. What do you expect? God looks at the homosexuals and says "Oh... Everyone else's punishment is death but shucks guys! You can live <3" No. He is a fair and just God. God is love, and love isn't always this happy prancy butterflies in your stomach feeling. Don't mistake God for a pansy. I notice that you keep doing this. When I say that the wages of sin is death, I mean in the long run. You have a choice to make, and if death seems so terrible to you then why don't you just stop arguing against God and realize that you're wrong? Because that's the only way that you're going to live. Do you really think that you are smarter than GOD? The sad thing is that half the stuff you said, I asked my little 6 year old brother which one makes sense, your story or mine, and he was able to figure out the reason why the Biblical one made sense. Not that I am saying my 6 year old brother is smarter than you, but if he can do it simply by thinking about it, then I'm sure you can too. And I'm not trying to belittle you or anything, I'm just making my point. Stop fighting. You cannot get to life by refusing it. You cannot go North by driving West. You will eventually have to turn North to go North. You should take a look at what most people would find "contradictory" about how God states to punish certain people by death immediately and what Jesus later says about it. It's not contradictory, but I'm not going to sit here explaining everything to you when you can, first of all, delve into the Bible and research it yourself...and second of all, what's the point of me trying to explain things to you when you are just going nit pick over every tiny thing that I say. You obviously have enough time on your hands and care enough about this stuff to argue practically everything that I say, to the point where you argue that Paul was a baffoon rather than a good man, so it might be beneficial to you to actually study what you are arguing against. It's different that Dairy-chan has these questions and asks for answers. Then she considers what the person says and comes back with legit questions. She doesn't nit-pick everything, but takes what they are saying as a whole. This is something you should consider doing, because you are sort of tiring me out. This is the reason why I have not replied to everything else in your post. I answered the things I thought most people would struggle with, and left the rest to you to figure out. Or maybe you can form it all into one or two basic questions and then I will answer those
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:55 pm
ankiannabar When does God commit sin? Show me where, and I'll show you you're wrong. (I'll count endorsing sin as sin) There's the ten commandments which he has broken about half of. (Mentioning other gods, creating stuff in the likeness of something else, Murdering*, endorsing thievery against the Egyptians, endorsing coveting, endorsing adultery) *Genocide seems sort of like a hobby to him. Then there's his lying, (Prophecies, how many came true?) jealousy, the whole "Mary" affair, misleading people in general, (False prohpets are given a "Lying spirit" by god) and endorsing slavery (Declared a sin by the catholic church a couple of centuries ago) I have verses if you want 'em. Quote: As I said to Dairy-chan, it is an incorrect interpretation of the Bible to say that people are eternally punished. The reason why everyone believes this is because people tend to take other people's word for it, Jesus' Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels Jesus often tells of throwing people into fires, so unless there's different fires to throw people into I'd say eternal punishment is fitting. Quote: Also because many people take scripture out of context. Most of what happens in the bible becomes way worse in context. Quote: The problem with our society is that most people get out of suffering the consequences of their actions You think the dudes in jail went there for fun? Before forensic medicine the way you figured out whodunnit was by witness account, which is by far the least reliable method, so if anything more people are suffering the consequences of their actions today. Quote: No He didn't. He said they would die and he did. Did God specify "you will die the very second you taste that apple?" No. He said "Surely, you will die." And they did. They immediately had their eternal life stripped from them and time began to age their bodies. People are confused, God doesn't usually use the "smite" technique. Adam became 900 years old, lived to see his great-great-great-great grandsons' son be born and got plenty of children; doesn't seem like much of a punishment. You could argue that the bible is going by the lunar calender in place at the time (Meaning Adam only became slightly older than an average modern man) but that creates dozens of other time related issues. And saying that god does not smite very often betrays either an ignorance regarding scripture, or a lack of understanding of the term "smite". Just saying. Quote: So what if you sin in the process of doing gods will? Quote: Is it then handwaved, or do you still get punished? Can you please further explain your question because you could mean one of two things: You could be asking if you are doing God's will, and then you sin; or you could mean that God tells you "Go kill this person." And so you are doing God's will but are also doing something that normally is considered a sin. Which do you mean? Naming the animals was Adams' task, our task by proxy. Our system of naming, that relies on the traits of the animal in question, requires us to examine the animals to which we wish to bestow a name, which has revealed flaws in scripture, which we are not to question. Lousy example I know, I'll probably think of something better later. Quote: Lol I used the wrong word XDD I simply meant to say that God has a plan for each of us that brings life and well-being. Catholicism is huge in Africa, so if he brings "life and well-being" it certainly isn't for his followers. Quote: Of course, you can achieve this by your own means, but it is never quite the same as the life you have with God. The happiest country on earth has a church-attendance problem and has the highest percentage of atheists in the world; you cannot even claim ignorance as it's main export is expertise. I'll let you chew on that. Quote: His plans are always better tyhan our own. One word: flood. Quote: Here is a true account of what happened to a man who questioned God. Go ahead and read how God responds to him. I mentioned this in my last post, did you read it? Quote: It doesn't just fall under "Misc. crimes". Quote: When did I say that it does? Every sin is punishable by death. I think I've said it seven times now. No, no every sin is punishable by death. Quote: What do you expect? God looks at the homosexuals and says "Oh... Everyone else's punishment is death but shucks guys! You can live <3" I was more in the "Hey guys, keep doing what you are doing, I created you this way after all. Now let me go smite Uwe Boll" line of thinking. Quote: No. He is a fair and just God. Quote: God is love, and love isn't always this happy prancy butterflies in your stomach feeling. I get the feeling you've never been in love yourself. No, love is not always like a crush in highschool. But, let me quote scripture here, Corinthians Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. god does not fit the criteria. Quote: When I say that the wages of sin is death, I mean in the long run. You have a choice to make, and if death seems so terrible to you then why don't you just stop arguing against God and realize that you're wrong? Disregarding the fact that you have no evidence for your position being correct for a second: Am I not going to die anyway? All the popes before this one are dead; Luther is dead; Paul, Thomas, Judas, Abel, John, Jonas, Abraham, Noah, and the rest are all dead - hell, even Jesus perished according to your beliefs. (Muslims tell a different story) Death is also not terrible to me, I certainly do not look forward to it, but I can deal; I do however find the taking of human life absolutely abhorrent. Also: Anyone who brings up Pascals wager has completely missed the point of not believing in god. Quote: Because that's the only way that you're going to live. I seem to be doing fine. Lemme just take a deep breath... yep, doing fine. So how are the destitute African Christians doing? Quote: Do you really think that you are smarter than GOD? I wouldn't know. Quote: The sad thing is that half the stuff you said I asked my little 6 year old brother which one makes sense, your story or mine, and he was able to figure out the reason why the Biblical one made sense. Not that I am saying my 6 year old brother is smarter than you, but if he can do it simply by thinking about it, then I'm sure you can too ... So you told him that "If the abrahamic god exists he's kind of a douche", and after telling him the whole story he disagreed? I do believe you have forgotten what I'm saying, and is using the fact that a 6 year old will believe a fairytale to "disprove" years of scientific research that is irrelevant to god being a douche or not, which is... special. Quote: You should take a look at what most people would find "contradictory" about how God states to punish certain people by death immediately and what Jesus later says about it. Screw his murdering. Does god want some people to go to hell? Who were the apostles? How many were there? Did we all speak one language before the tower of babel? Where did Jesus perform his miracles? Does animal sacrifice please god, and does it wash away sin? How 'bout human sacrifice? Is god omnipotent? How many gods are there? Is circumcision required? Does god purposely confuse us? Is death final? Will the earth last forever? Is salvation something that happens through faith alone? Is resurrection proof of divinity? All of these questions are given contradictory answers in the bible, and they seem pretty central. Quote: It's not contradictory, but I'm not going to sit here explaining everything to you when you can, first of all, delve into the Bible and research it yourself... Scripture, I'm quoting it. Quote: and second of all, what's the point of me trying to explain things to you when you are just going nit pick over every tiny thing that I say. The devil is in the details, and I wouldn't nitpick if you weren't wrong wink Quote: You obviously have enough time on your hands and care enough about this stuff to argue practically everything that I say, 10 minutes, and I'm bored. Quote: to the point where you argue that Paul was a baffoon rather than a good man, Paul is a bigot, racist, sexist buffon who perpetuated a dogma under which babies are evil because of s**t they, or their families, had no part ********/> Quote: so it might be beneficial to you to actually study what you are arguing against. Right back at ya Quote: It's different that Dairy-chan has these questions and asks for answers. Then she considers what the person says and comes back with legit questions. She doesn't nit-pick everything, but takes what they are saying as a whole. This is something you should consider doing, because you are sort of tiring me out. This is the reason why I have not replied to everything else in your post. I answered the things I thought most people would struggle with, and left the rest to you to figure out. Or maybe you can form it all into one or two basic questions and then I will answer those I do not want you to answer questions. I know of the Bible, and I know that in it is the worst figure in all of literacy. (god) A petty, jealous, dumb, racist, sexist, murdering, genocidal, dishonest, lazy, all powerful douchebag with no regard for the sanctity of human life, and no redeeming traits. Something you have refuted by saying that murder is justified when he says so.
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:57 pm
ankiannabar As a person, God aside and all, I refuse to point at a baboon and say, "LOOK MA! He's doin' it so I can too!" That's ridiculous. Most animals only have the thought patterns of a 5 year old child. Some monkeys, an 8 year old child. Would you point at a little girl or boy and say "look that child is doing something wrong so I'm going to do it too?" That just doesn't fly with me. /facepalm The entire point of that was to show that, since non-sentient animals engage in both heterosexual and homosexual activities, then homosexual behavior must therefore not be based on choice. They can't choose to do it, but they still do it. The same goes for humans. If heterosexuality is natural, and homosexuality has also been proven to be natural... Do the math. You also butchered my post, cutting out the entire last part of that statement... which I have just outlined again here, in greater detail.
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